Is a patchbay the cure for what ails me??

  • Thread starter Thread starter Alphabet_City
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Alphabet_City

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I have about 6-7 hardware samplers that I wish to use with my DAW.

My interface has plenty of ins to accommodate them, but, the interface doesn't have enough OUTS for me to route my audio from my DAW to every sampler.... I want to be able to pick and choose which sampler to sample into or route through for FX without plugging/unplugging cables.

Long story short... I want to be able to route audio out from my DAW to all my units with ONE set of outs and route all of the audio back IN through one set of INS.

I know I can do the latter with a mixer...but the first part is something I'd prefer to do without using splitter cables and adapters.
 
If you want to pick and choose between units then a patch bay would be useful.
You'd still have to manually patch a pair of cables to the points that correspond with sampler 1, sampler 2, etc.

This is kinda like my setup.
The right side of my patch bay is my 8 line inputs.
The left side is my twelve possible sources.
8 cables are patched between and the source ends of them are moved depending what I need.

If you want to route a stereo path to several units at once, then it's going to have to be some kind of powered unit, like a mixer.
No adapters/splitters whatever are really useful here.
If your interface has adat output you could pick up a behringer ada8000 or something and have 8 separate line outputs. Maybe that would cover your needs?
 
Steenamaroo said:
If you want to pick and choose between units then a patch bay would be useful.
You'd still have to manually patch a pair of cables to the points that correspond with sampler 1, sampler 2, etc.

This is kinda like my setup.
The right side of my patch bay is my 8 line inputs.
The left side is my twelve possible sources.
8 cables are patched between and the source ends of them are moved depending what I need.

If you want to route a stereo path to several units at once, then it's going to have to be some kind of powered unit, like a mixer.
No adapters/splitters whatever are really useful here.
If your interface has adat output you could pick up a behringer ada8000 or something and have 8 separate line outputs. Maybe that would cover your needs?
Click to expand...


Let me give you a rough idea of what my process looks like...

I arrange and compose everything in my DAW...it's my single sound source for all my external samplers, so I want to have all samplers ready to receive input from my DAW simply by arming them...and then be able to set the input on my DAW mixer to receive input from any of the samplers.

Now that you mention it... the Behringer ADA would be perfect but I don't have ADAT out on my AI only Coaxial.

EDIT: with the ADA 8000, I can also take the samplers outputs and route them through the ADA's ins and send it back to the AI via ADAT IN?

If that's the case I might need to buy a new interface...
 
Funnily enough another solution for your problem might be another ADA, this time standing for "Audio Distribution Amplifier". Basically it's just an amp that takes a single input and gives you 6 or 8 or 10 line level outputs. There are a bunch on the market, starting at around $150 new but I've just seen some for around $50 on eBay in the US.
 
Bobbsy said:
Funnily enough another solution for your problem might be another ADA, this time standing for "Audio Distribution Amplifier". Basically it's just an amp that takes a single input and gives you 6 or 8 or 10 line level outputs. There are a bunch on the market, starting at around $150 new but I've just seen some for around $50 on eBay in the US.
Click to expand...


This might be what I have to do...because I actually want to run the output of my DAW/AI through a preamp before hitting my samplers...and I totally disregarded that considering the ADA8000

I know this might be frowned upon a little..lol
 
Well, a Distribution Amplifier isn't exactly the same thing as a pre amp--it just provides multiple line level outputs of a single input (and keeps them isolated from each other). However, theirs no reason to frown on their use. Go to any broadcast or audio post production facility and you'll often see hundreds of them.
 
Alphabet_City said:
I arrange and compose everything in my DAW...it's my single sound source for all my external samplers, so I want to have all samplers ready to receive input from my DAW simply by arming them...and then be able to set the input on my DAW mixer to receive input from any of the samplers.
Click to expand...

Ok, I see.
Bobbsy's other ADA is probably the way forward then.
If you go with the muliple interface outputs then you have to tell your daw to be outputting to 1+2, and 3+4, and 5......etc etc which can be a bit or routing hassle.

Bobbsys way, you just work away as normal but your signal gets sent to loads of locations rather than just your speakers.

Just be aware of how you're monitoring. I don't use samplers but if there's any kind of real time monitoring goin on I guess you'll get feedback?
Ideally your interface would have out1+2 for speakers and 3+4 for sending to other stuff.
 
Bobbsy said:
Well, a Distribution Amplifier isn't exactly the same thing as a pre amp--it just provides multiple line level outputs of a single input (and keeps them isolated from each other). However, theirs no reason to frown on their use. Go to any broadcast or audio post production facility and you'll often see hundreds of them.
Click to expand...

Yea I copied you originally lol..

My output chain would look like this DAW/AI >> Preamp >> Distribution Amp >> Samplers

And I think the best solution for me routing back in would be to have a AD/DA converter like the ADA8000 to route all my audio back in through one digital input.
 
Alphabet_City said:
And I think the best solution for me routing back in would be to have a AD/DA converter like the ADA8000 to route all my audio back in through one digital input.
Click to expand...

Perhaps you know already, but 'one digital input' will register in your daw as 8 analog inputs.

If you want two ins and two outs with a range of tools in between, you probably want a distribution amp on the way out and a mixer on the way back in.
 
Steenamaroo said:
Perhaps you know already, but 'one digital input' will register in your daw as 8 analog inputs.
Click to expand...

I never routed into my DAW digitally, so I definitely did not know that. I just figured it would be better to import into the DAW digitally because it wouldn't have to go through conversion but that would only matter if it was directly from the sampler...

if all my samplers were going into an ADDA it would be going through exactly that lol...totally had a brain fart

If you want two ins and two outs with a range of tools in between, you probably want a distribution amp on the way out and a mixer on the way back in.
Click to expand...


Yes, it just sunk in... this is the most practical (and cost effective) solution.

Thanks for all the help!
 
Hey, one more question...would I need to actively distribute the signal??

Couldn't I do it with a passive split?

IIRC, this would not degrade the signal as long as the input impedance is 10x whatever the output impedance is, correct?

The output impedance of my preamp is <47 ohms, not sure how splitting that would affect it, but all my hardware has an input impedance well over 10x that range.
 
Alphabet_City said:
Hey, one more question...would I need to actively distribute the signal??
Click to expand...

There are much more technically minded people around here who can answer that question for you.
I see passive distributers exists but a quick glance shows ones for distributing power amp signals.

I'd guess that your scenario is different because you're trying to split line level. There's going to a be a limit to how many times you can do that.

Hopefully one of the techy guys will weigh in.
 
"Hey, one more question...would I need to actively distribute the signal??

Couldn't I do it with a passive split?"

Yes, you could. Assuming the feeds are unbalanced all you really need is a box of 9 jacks, wired pin to pin ( we call them parallel boxes) In practice I would get a wee bit more clever.

Another assumption, no cable runs over about 5mtrs? Ok then, feed each hot pin on the output jacks from a 1K resistor. This has two benefits..
1) The level does not alter as you plug and unplug devices
2) Should a short develop in one cable you don't lose everything and it is fairly obvious where the fault lies.

I do however have the very chap you need here. A Behringer MX 882 Ultralink Pro. If you are UK you can have it for the postage!

Dave.
 
ecc83 said:
"Hey, one more question...would I need to actively distribute the signal??

Couldn't I do it with a passive split?"

Yes, you could. Assuming the feeds are unbalanced all you really need is a box of 9 jacks, wired pin to pin ( we call them parallel boxes) In practice I would get a wee bit more clever.

Another assumption, no cable runs over about 5mtrs? Ok then, feed each hot pin on the output jacks from a 1K resistor. This has two benefits..
1) The level does not alter as you plug and unplug devices
2) Should a short develop in one cable you don't lose everything and it is fairly obvious where the fault lies.

I do however have the very chap you need here. A Behringer MX 882 Ultralink Pro. If you are UK you can have it for the postage!

Dave.
Click to expand...

Longest run is about 3.5 meters, however, the feeds are not unbalanced, but I am not sure if you are talking about the feeds from the split or from the source itself.


Ahh, that's unfortunate... I am in the US...thanks much for the offer, though..appreciated!
 
Do you need the output of the DAW to go to all of the samplers at the same time? If not then just use the patch bay how it was designed, to repatch things. With the right patch bay setup you could still do your mults (passive splits) if needed.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
Do you need the output of the DAW to go to all of the samplers at the same time? If not then just use the patch bay how it was designed, to repatch things. With the right patch bay setup you could still do your mults (passive splits) if needed.
Click to expand...

No, I just need to be able to select any one sampler to feed without plugging and unplugging...

Only thing about patchbays is, I am having a little bit of a tough time wrapping my head around the functionality of it. I'm certain I don't need a 96 point bay but not sure if I could get away with an 8 point like the ART TPatch
 
", however, the feeds are not unbalanced, but I am not sure if you are talking about the feeds from the split or from the source itself."

Either the whole system is balanced or it isn't. I would guess you are saying that the output IS balanced but the inputs are not? In that case, proceed as originally directed!

The source might be "twin amps" balanced or "impedance" balanced. With the former we need to know if the output can have one "leg" grounded, make and model# please.

Dave.
 
Alphabet_City said:
No, I just need to be able to select any one sampler to feed without plugging and unplugging...

Only thing about patchbays is, I am having a little bit of a tough time wrapping my head around the functionality of it. I'm certain I don't need a 96 point bay but not sure if I could get away with an 8 point like the ART TPatch
Click to expand...

Patchbays mostly just move the 1/4" jacks from the back of your gear to the front of your rack where you can get to things without crawling behind the gear. They are for convenience and to save your gear the wear on their jacks. They also have features like normalling to connect two jacks by default when not otherwise patched, which comes in handy when the patch bay is used for mixer inserts.

If you have some free rack space get a standard 48 point patch bay. It's always better to have a few unused channels than to be one or two short, and rack mounting makes repatching much easier. Put it at the bottom of the rack or above some unused area so the patch cables don't hang in front of things. You're going to need a bunch of short patch cables (3') and more instrument cables.
 
ecc83 said:
", however, the feeds are not unbalanced, but I am not sure if you are talking about the feeds from the split or from the source itself."

Either the whole system is balanced or it isn't. I would guess you are saying that the output IS balanced but the inputs are not? In that case, proceed as originally directed!

The source might be "twin amps" balanced or "impedance" balanced. With the former we need to know if the output can have one "leg" grounded, make and model# please.

Dave.
Click to expand...

Yea, the output from my preamp is unbalanced, it's an ART PRO MPA II
 
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