interesting post from another board (eek!) re monster cable

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"In Reply to: Somebody tell me I'm not crazy . . . posted by John Wheeler on November 30, 19100 at 12:00:10:

At the risk of making a statement that is un-professional, I will do this anonymously. I feel the need to let you guys in on some info, as Monster makes my stomach turn knowing how bad they rip-off consumers.

I happen to have some inside information about Monster, since I am in the industry. First of all, they do not manufacture their own cable. They are only a brand name. Their cable is often manufactured by Belden or some overseas plant. These plants use basically the same materials they use on any other product.

The copper and plastic materials used by any manufacture comes from the same 5 or so chemical companies that manufacture the plastic material, with a few having internal capabilities. The copper also only comes from a handful of refineries. The difference between one brand and another is the choices of materials, design, manufacturing process and control.

Monster does not have some magic fairy dust dielectric or copper that lets you hear God at the other end. Although some of their cables are decent cables, they are not anywhere as magical as they make them out to be. In fact many years ago they had tried to convince someone that their cable had more high-end detail. When the cable was actually put under test, it was found that the cable had a greater amount of inductance. This rolled off the low end, causing an apparent boost of high end.

I also happen to know how much it actually costs to make these types of cables, and I can tell you that there is absolutely nothing they can do that can make their cable cost 3 times to 6 times as much as other brands.

Please do not waste your money. There are plenty of good designs out there that are as good or better than Monster. Look to true pro-audio brands like Belden, Mogami, Gepco, or Canare. Stay away from the Kimber Kables and Monsters of the world. They only exist to take advantage of what people do not know."


Well, whaddaya'all think?
 
The de facto studio standard for cable IS Mogami or Canare anyways - I've never heard of a studio wiring up with Monster... aren't they marketed more towards the High-End HiFi crowd???

Bruce Valeriani
Blue Bear Sound
 
You and me both, Bro.

There is no magic in their wires. However, there is a lot of psychological magic in having spent *beaucoup* bucks for something, so a lot of high-end consumer audio people get absolutely convinced that it had to have been worth it, after the fact. And it can get right ugly when you try to inform them otherwise....

Monster is just a marketing company. As the anonymous poster stated, they house brand wire sourced from other vendors, and then hype the living, breathing bejeezus out of it. The only difference is having "Monster" hotstamped on the jacket by the vendor- that triples the price. Other than that, it is just your basic wire.

Yup, no magic a-tall: but boy, do they rake in the bucks on that stuff. Caveat emptor!
 
I am sure they dont make their cables and that it is a extremely high price to pay, but if you have tried a complete chain wired with the correct version of their cables you will hear a major improvement over average range cables. How that is achieved I dont really care.

Also this was for guitars,basses and not studios.
 
What about the Monster 100 series? This stuff is about the same price as I've seen for "ordinary" quality cables.
At my local Guitar Satan if you want a cable in a hurry you can buy HOSA (sheeesh!) or Monster or GS house and they have a small selection of Proco. The latter seems like decent cable but it's too stiff for my tastes. It fights you every step of the way when you try to lay it out.
I just got into this microphone thing recently; I've used guitar cables for years and oh boy what a difference a good cable makes.
I'm not talking about audiophile characteristics.
I'm talking about standing up to use on the road.
I've got one set (a long one and a short one) that I bought at least 20 years ago and they still are going strong.
Not a click, pop or scratch from a damaged cable the whole time. I didn't pay a lot of money for them- but they weren't the cheapest I could find then or now. From the few dozen times I've set up and broken down the rig with the Monster 100- I'd be inclined to believe it's built just as well.
But only time will tell.
 
Thankyou thankyou thankyou camus for posting this


bvaleria: Gosh, dont let sonusman hear you say that. Don't you know that he uses monster 1000 exclusively? :)

but enemyofthesun, you can also get that same improvement in quality for a third of the price.
 
Sure: there's no question about it. Using higher-quality cable for high-impedance instrument/amp interconnect will absolutely make a major difference in the overall sound of your guitar or bass rig. High-quality cables will exhibit lower capacitance, and that property alone will reduce the high frequency rolloff that is a fact of life with a high-impedance source. We all agree there: the difference is easy to understand in circuit terms. Shoot, even I can hear it, and we all know that I'm deaf as a post. (;-)

There are lots of good cables out there, and all of them have something to offer over the molded Rat Shack/Hosa junk. However (and this is the point that most of us cynical bastards cling to), some of them cost a whole boatload *less* than Monster, and offer equivalent or superior performance! As Mr. Valeria points out, Canare and Mogami are pretty damned good stuff. Shoot, there are 3 or 4 beaterbox Belden part numbers that are the good stuff too, for certain applications. What I keep saying is that it may not make financial sense to pay a factor of three extra for the Monster logo hotstamped on the cable they buy from Belden (or whomever...).

If you need a decent cable fast, because you're heading for a gig *right now* and you don't need the crunchies, then snag whatever Guitar Satan has with my blessings. Convenience obviously rules in this case. But if you're laboriously putting together a home studio rig and you need many dozen cables of various descriptions: you're gonna go _broke_ hosing the money out for that stuff, and it's not at all clear that you are getting what you're paying for. My advice in that case is to snag a roll of Mogami or Canare or Belden and some loose connectors, and save yourself the cost of a couple good *mikes* in the process. Or get a Full Compass catalog and buy preassembled cables made with the good stuff for a whole lot less than the Guitar Satan/Monster connection.

Bottom line for me: I just cannot bring myself to pay $50 for a guitar cable that I know contains far less than $10 in parts, even if it is convenient. It just ain't magic- and I do have a soldering iron, and I _do_ know how to use it...

Hope that helps.
 
Well now that we are talking about mic cables, I need 4 cables and some suggestions.

1 xlr mic cable and :15 -20 feet
1 1/4 inch trs cable 15 feet
2 1/4 inch trs cables 6feet

can you guys suggest some tried and tested parts or part numbers. I believe that canare and mogami are good, thanks to Bvaleria, but their top of the line mic cable is more expensive than monster 1000($108 for 15 feet), but I also realize that their entry level stuff might just not cut it, hence the need for part numbers.

how about making ones cables? can that be cheaper for me if I only need 5-6 high quality cables?
 
well...I gotta say, Musicians Friend has these deals on 20' gtr cables for $4.99 all the time. I bought about 10 of them, and roll over them all the time with my chair, etc. They MIGHT crackle a bit if you pick them up and shake them with a HOT signal, and the fader turned WAY up...but I don't usually do that as a practice. If someone can hear that I am using crappy instrument cables by listening to my mixes...well...they are the same *golden ears* that can hear the wire polarity too...and whether my monitor speakers utilize screw in connectors or 1/4" or XLR....or whether the left speaker is on the right..and the right speaker on the left. Sometimes things seem to get too anal for me when it comes to recording. But, there are plenty of sucessful *sugar pill*, to prove me wrong.
 
for parts. this is your best bet. TRS Neutrik NP3C $3.30 a pop at that quantity. they become $2.15 after 9. For XLr Neutrik NC3MX($2.30) and NC3FX($2.50). they all get cheaper after 9. 40 feet of Canare starquad would cost you $40 at tat length. this is all quoting my Full Compass catalog. ive been making cables as well. its tough work.
 
thanks kristian,

I can see myself doing that
are those the tope of the line cables and connectors?

Also, what all do I have to buy to actually put them together? and where can I get them?
 
Well I am not stuck on the MONSTER CABLE brand at all. I just have heard remarkable differences using their cables.. Saving money is definitely a priority as well. Tell me what cables to buy again? Models or series?

Why does the bass cable from Monster sound so much better on a bass guitar? What other manufacturers can give me the exact same quality or better? I really want to know so I dont spend the extra money for nothing.




As far as making cables I am interested in that. WHat components coudl I buy that would be as good as the monsters or better? Again this is for guitar/ bass rigs but I would be interested in making cables for my home studio as well.
 
no those arent TOP of the line. but somewhere someone mentioned the law of diminishing returns, and those are about at the centerpoint for that law. for the connectors those are silver connections. you can a little more for gold. about $1 more per connector. and for cable, you pay more for a lower gauge. its your choice. the catalog is free, or you can call them and ask.

to make them, i got 2 wire strippers. one that takes off the rubber, and then another that takes of the jacket around each conductor. then a 35Watt solder, some silver solder wire, a jar of flux(be careful with this shit), good lighting, a vice to hold the connector, and then a steady hand, but you cant really buy that.
 
Well, in a studio situation we really need to talk about 3 different applications for cables: mic, instrument, and line level. Conceptually, you *can* use the same stuff for all three cables, but if you want to maximize your bang-for-the-buck you should match the wire to the requirements.

Microphones: This is the most stringent application. Signal levels are very low, and noise rejection is of the utmost importance. However, the source impedance of most modern mics used in recording situations is very low (>200Ohms), so the overall capacitance of the cable is not the most important issue here: quality of the shielding, and quality of the "lay" of the conductors and fillers (for noise rejection and to inhibit mechanical noise generation- triboelectric effects) are the most critical properties. Probably the best bang-for-the-buck here is the Canare L4E6S StarQuad, followed by Belden 9211, followed by the Belden 1192A/1172A family (a _huge_ bang-for-the-buck leader at 30-40 cents a foot, but with higher handling noise and less pleasant handling characteristics due to its PVC jacket), followed by the Mogami quad families. The starquad cables do typically exhibit the best noise rejection, and I rank the Canare, and Belden higher than the Mogami because I like braid shields better than spiral-wrapped for durability (even the inexpensive 1192A/1172A has a "french braid" shield). Mostly, I like cheap better than pricey so that I can still afford *beer*.

One step down from the starquad mic cables are the simple shielded pair types. If you don't need the absolute ultimate in noise rejection (and most of us don't 90% of the time: for example, for that run over to the SM57 hung in front of that Marshall stack!), these will work just fine. The differences are extremely hard for most people to hear, but try it for yourself and see. Belden 8412 is the de facto industry standard mic cable that has been in use for decades, and you really can't go wrong with it at between 40 and 60 cents a foot (depending on the quantity you buy). Roughly equivalent to that is the Canare L2T2S. For live work where durability is more important, there's Belden 8402, which is the brown Hypalon-jacket stuff. For live work where *absolute* bombproofness is required, IMNSHO Belden 9399 rules, if you can find it: with its copper-bronze conductors it is nearly immortal (except in the face of long-term ozone exposure, as I found out). It also costs a freakin' fortune, like a buck a foot. But if you make your living doing live work, it is worth the investment.

Instrument: For the low-level, high-impedance output from guitars and basses, you need an extremely low-capacitance cable with excellent shielding qualities. If you use 25 foot cables on a Telecaster, you'll very easily be able to hear the difference between 25pF/ft and 75pF/ft- that's roughly the range of the readily available bulk cables. You *don't* want to use your starquad cable here, because it will be too high-capacitance (approaching 100pF/ft, with all 4 conductors tied to hot) and will roll off the high frequencies in your signal. Spend the time to find a good, low capacitance cable. My favorites are Belden 8410 (at 33pF/ft) for 30 cents a foot, Canare GS6 (47pF/ft), and Belden 9394 (55pF/ft). The 8410 is cheaper, the GS6 and 9394 have conductive-plastic (or textile) under-shield layers for better shielding performance if and when you might need it.

Line level cables: Here is where you can save some money. Because you are running higher levels (-10 or +4) with low source impedances, you do not need the ultimate handling noise rejection, ultra low capacitance, or super shielding performance that you do with mic or instrument cables. There's no reason whatsoever to spend the large bucks for a starquad cable, and then stick it in a line-level application. It doesn't _hurt_, of course- it just isn't particularly cost-effective. I tend to use much less expensive (but still good) cable for this. If you need good flexibility, inexpensive Belden 8412 mic cable is good here, as is the even-less-expensive Belden 8422. If you're doing fixed-installation stuff, the various foil-shielded pairs are vastly more cost-effective: I've been using Belden 8762 foil-shielded 22AWG pair for my patchbay work for a while now, primarily because I got a 1000' roll at surplus years ago and I'm still trying to use it up. Works great at 25-30 cents a foot.

For connectors, I like the Neutrik numbers previously mentioned by Kristian. These are decent quality, have good strain reliefs, and are fast and easy to work with. Cost-wise, they are on a par with Switchcraft, but are _much_ easier to work with, and time is money. Gold-plated connector pins? I leave that for people with more dollars than sense...

There are as many different answers to "what cable should I use" as there are engineers. There are undoubtedly other cables out there that are equivalent or superior to the ones I listed above- I just haven't used 'em.

My personal preference in my own studio is to have 4 or 5 really good, quiet cables to use when I hang a gazillibuck tube mic in front of a vocalist or a piano or other quiet/delicate acoustic instrument. My "good cables" are very pricey Gotham Audio 3-conductor (!) cable with Neutrik connectors that came with some Neumann mics I bought years ago, and they exhibit no handling noise _at all_. I'm the only one who touches those. I then have 20 or 30 "public" beaterbox 8412/9399 mic cables I let everybody else use to wire up the guitar amps, the kick drum, the snare mic, for location work, and for everything else. Using/paying for the high-zoot stuff doesn't make sense unless I know that I'll really need that noise floor. When the Gotham cables eventually die, I'll replace them with Canare. For everything else, 40-cents-a-foot does just fine, thank you very much...

Hope this helps.

[Edited by skippy on 12-06-2000 at 13:01]
 
thanks kristian,

I will look into full compass and order me some connectors and cables. I'll most likely go for the gold connectors for my mic cable ,and also gold connectors for my other cables, since I am only going to be using 12 or so.
I think I'll go the way of making cables.

Thanks a lot skippy for all that info.
i'll probably go with the higher end canare stuff for my mc, and the less expensive stuff for my module.

'precc.
 
well thank you for the detailed information. I am going to print this and look into building cables.
 
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