Ins/Outs and Mixers

[staticmigration]

Hi

I have nagging problem, that is doing my head in and i need some help.

I have just purchased a Behringer MX2004A Mixer ( i know possibly quite a dodgy bit of gear) and a Delta 1010 soundcard for my G3.

I have found that my mixer has no direct outs for recording each channel, but some guy told me it is feasible to use the inserts send and return with a stereo split jack to the ins and outs of soundcard so that i can still monitor. I want to record drums so i want to be able to multitrack record thus using the Alt3/4 output and main mix output appear to be not what i want, unless anyone can tell me different....
To me it seems that which ever way you use the inserts or ins and outs you are still able to mix/record/monitor as long as i use balanced jacks. Test recordings thus far proove the inserts can be used as outputs..
I was told i didn't need balanced 1/4 jacks in them but even in the main mix output unbalanced jacks seem not to work. Confused?? I am too much info from too many people i need some direct input not from books and stuff but from someone who can rationlise this.

Now here are the questions.

Why is this not such a good way to record?
Where do the output from the soundcard go back into the mixer for mixdown if not the insert, or do i have to swap the looms from the line in?

Or can anyone suggest how to go about this, because the more i think about it and look at the problem the more it seems to be the same difference.

An finally is it worth me taking back my Behringer and swapping it for a Soundcraft SX20

Sorry if this seems disjointed but i am not sure if i have analysed this problem correctly? Or am i overcomplicating stuff?

Right enough waffle.

Cheers and thanks to those who can help.

 

[vox]

You could try rigging it like this:

Kick mic -> channel 1 XLR in, insert steal to Delta input 1

Snare top -> channel 2 XLR in, assign to subgroup 1
Snare bot. -> channel 3 XLR in, assign to subgroup 1
Subgroup 1(premixed snare top & bottom) -> Delta input 2

HiHat mic -> channel 4 XLR in, insert steal to Delta input 3

Tom 1 -> channel 5 XLR in, assign to subgroups 3&4
Tom 2 -> channel 6 XLR in, assign to subgroups 3&4
Tom 3 -> channel 7 XLR in, assign to subgroups 3&4
Subgroups 3&4 (prepanned Toms) -> Delta inputs 4&5

Overhead L-> channel 8 XLR in, insert steal to Delta input 6

Overhead R-> channel 9 XLR in, insert steal to Delta input 7

Rest of the band (scratch Track), assign to subgroup 2
Subgroup 2 (premixed scratch track) -> Delta input 8

Delta outs 1&2 (software mixer outs) -> two other channels



An insert steal is either an unbalanced 1/4" cable plugged into the insert jack halfway (up to the first click), or an unbalanced 1/4" cable with a stereo (tip, ring, sleeve) jack on one end that has the tip and ring connected together, this end is plugged all the way in to the insert socket.

Good Luck

 

[staticmigration]

Thanks for the help.
Much of what you had pointed out i had figured out with regards to using the jack half in or fully in etc.. though i think it may have just been my cables not working.

However, forgive me for being naive, i am unsure as to how to assign channels to subgroups (presumably on another channel?) In a manner of speaking you are way ahead of me technically. I know my terms and kinda what they do but not really how to apply them. The Manual does not imply how to do this. I know how subgroups work from other research but i am damned if the manual is so ambiguous as to be useless.

I am presuming that using the mixer this way then the outputs are routed back to the inserts to monitor, and this can be the same to mix down after initial recordings, bearing in mind i am mostly doing this alone, so i am unlikely to have band scratch track either or should i say yet...

I think I understand so far, any clearing up of a few matters like the need for the effects on the channel inserts or not as the case may be (which i suppose can be put on other channels and routed to a the same subgroup?) bearing in mind i do only have 16 channels, 8 mono/xlr ins and 4 stereo ins. Or is it gonna be far less hassle to swap the mixer for one with more channels and direct outs?

Thanks

 

[vox]

Sorry, when I heard that the board was called a 2004 I assumed it was a true 4 bus (plus main bus) board, apparently it really only has a Main bus + a Mute bus.
If you dont need to record a scratch track and you only have 8 mic inputs to work with try this:

Kick -> channel 1, insert steal -> Delta ch 1
Snare -> channel 2, insert steal -> Delta ch 2
Hats (or snare bottom) -> channel 3, insert steal -> Delta ch 3
Tom 1 -> channel 4, insert steal -> Delta ch 4
Tom 2 -> channel 5, insert steal -> Delta ch 5
Tom 3 -> channel 6, insert steal -> Delta ch 6
Overhead Left -> channel 7, insert steal -> Delta ch 7
Overhead Right -> channel 8, insert steal -> Delta ch 8

You will have to decide whether you need a seperate hihat track more than a snare bottom track, actually you might need neither.

To assign channels to the "alt 3/4 bus" just press the channel mute button and the signals are sent to the alt 3/4 outputs.

Are you planning to mix in the recording software or with the board eq and faders ? If you are mixing in software then you only need to connect outputs 1+2 of the delta to a stereo channel of the board for monitoring. If you plan to mix with the board then your plan of using standard insert cables connected to the 8 delta ins and outs should work, i'm not an electrical engineer and while that hook up is unconventional it should be ok I guess , I could of course be wrong, maybe someone else can chime in and say?