Input vs. Output gain on a preamp?

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fretcruiser

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Hey guys, I'm running an AT1010 through an ART Tube MP(please refrain from insulting jokes :facepalm:, I just needed something with phantom power, and that was the cheapest), into my M-Audio Fasttrack. I usually started with the input gain pretty hot, and it produced a fantastic sound, but I noticed that the SSS and PPP and such "popping" were really extreme. I attributed that to the input gain being high, am I right?
 
Probably. Assuming you are plugging the preamp into the line inputs on the fasttrack and not a mic input, you probably have the input gain up to the point where it is starting to compress and distort a bit. With less expensive tube preamps, that can make the sss's really bad and low end can bottom them out.

You would be best off backing off the input gain and raising the output gain until you get the right recording level. The difference between the two is how hard you are hitting the tube, which translates to how much distortion you are trying to get.
 
Yes this does sound like a compression issue. The art tube pre-amp has a built in limiter also, I think you can turn this limiter off, which I would suggest doing, unless you want that really compressed over driven tube sound.
Less gain so the input doesn't need to use the limiter, and hopefully the PPs and Tss and Sss should be not as loud.

G
 
The previous explanations are quite likely correct.

Just to expand a bit, when setting up your gain structure, you want to avoid situations where you crank things up at the input then reduce levels later in the chain. You're better off setting a balance so you're somewhere in the middle of the range on both the ART and the Fasttrack (and, obviously so the levels you're recording are at around the right point--say averaging -18dBFS with peaks going a bit higher in your DAW). Working this way makes best use of the available gain and preserves headroom through the chain.
 
Farview said:
Probably. Assuming you are plugging the preamp into the line inputs on the fasttrack and not a mic input, you probably have the input gain up to the point where it is starting to compress and distort a bit. With less expensive tube preamps, that can make the sss's really bad and low end can bottom them out.

You would be best off backing off the input gain and raising the output gain until you get the right recording level. The difference between the two is how hard you are hitting the tube, which translates to how much distortion you are trying to get.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the replies. That's what I thought. I'm actually running the ART through the MIC input on the fasttrack. I have the mic input of the fasttrack at 50%.
 
hmm... Excuse me if i'm wrong here but believe that if you're running a pre-amp into the interface's Mic input, your using both preamps... That might be part of the problem too, and it seems like a waste of your tub pre that you're connecting. You might try to put it through a line in so that you only use the tube
 
That's correct, there is no point in using both preamps. That's just asking for problems. Especially if you have the preamp on the fastrack half way up. You are probably adding 20-30db at the fast track on top of having the gain on the ART cranked. Unless you are record mouse farts from 100 yards away, that's probably WAY too much gain.
 
On most interfaces, you do have to turn the "preamp" up some to get it to line level. For example, on my focusrite saffire pro40, when the interface preamps are turned up to 4, and the external preamps are at 0, the DAW is reading -18dbfs which is 0db...right? does that make sense? So it would seem that if I leave the preamps at 0 on the interface, I'm basically adding a pad to the external preamps signal, and run a greater risk of overloading my external preamp and clipping. right?
 
fretcruiser said:
Hey guys, I'm running an AT1010 through an ART Tube MP(please refrain from insulting jokes :facepalm:, I just needed something with phantom power, and that was the cheapest), into my M-Audio Fasttrack.
Click to expand...

Errrrr....doesn't the Fast Track come with phantom power? :confused:
 
guitaristic said:
Errrrr....doesn't the Fast Track come with phantom power? :confused:
Click to expand...

No, it doesn't. I actually never thought of running it into the instrument input. The duel preamp thing never crossed my mind. Thanks, I'll try that out.
 
The Fast Track does have phantom power--the slide switch is on the back next to the USB output and there's an indicator LED to the left of the mic input to show when it's switched on.

For your levels to match, you should be using the line/instrument jack on the front of the Fast Track though. What you're effectively doing is putting line level into a mic level input which makes it between 40 and 60 dB too hot.

Edited to Add: The above applies to the current Fast Track model. From memory, the now-discontinued original version didn't have phantom and also suffered from problems with noise and lack of headroom.
 
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