Individual Outputs

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Boots49

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Does anyone know of a reasonably priced drum machine with individual outputs for snare, kick, toms, etc.? Good realistic drum sounds is a big plus as well. I'll be hooking it up with my old Boss DR-5, so someone had suggested the Roland TD-20, but that's way too pricey for me. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
 
The Alesis DM5 has 2 mains and 2 aux's and all the sounds are assignable to those. Maybe then kick to main L snare to main R and put the rest of the kit in stereo at the aux L&R.
DM5' s can be had for under $200 used.

The DM pro has 6 outputs if I remember correctly.

I think the DM sounds are pretty good. Somebody else may disagree but...........
they'd be wrong.

ac
 
Hi AC...thanks for the reply! I am going to look into both of those. I also heard that the Boss DR-880 has 4 outputs (Stereo L&R, and Aux L&R). I don't know how good the drum sounds are compared to Alesis. Let me ask you this as well...I am currently using an old Boss DR-5 which is a drum machine/4 track sequencer. In additon to the drum track, it has 3 others you can write on, using Bass, different keyboard sounds, horns, etc. The sounds aren't bad. If I write the patterns/songs on the DR-5 and use the MIDI out to the MIDI In on the Alesis will that trigger the drum parts there?
 
I think your idea should work. I'm a bit of a midi dunce. I'm sure it will require more than just hooking up the cable and hoping for the best. If you go with the DMpro there is more than one software version. You will have to research to make sure you get the latest one. I understand some of the DMpro units had some serious problems. The one I had for a while was just fine. The DMpro is quite an advancement over the DM5 but the DM5's are cheap and plentiful in the used market. They have been proven to be reliable machines.
ac
 
Hi ac, yeah, I'm a bit of a MIDI moron myself. I'm kind of a digital dummy as well, as I'm still using my old Tascam 38 reel to reel 8 track! The only thing I learned to do was write the patterns on the DR-5, link them together for the song, and then I bought a JL Cooper PPS-2 to stripe one track on the Tascam. Then when I roll tape, it kicks off the DR-5. I'm hoping that, if I run the MIDI out from the DR-5 to the MIDI In on the DMPro or DM5, the DR-5 drum tracks will trigger the DM5. Then I can mute the drum track on the DR-5 and get much better drum sounds. Are the drum sounds on the Alesis realistic? How do you think they compare to the Roland TD10 or TD20?
Boots
 
Boots,
Are you writing the drum sounds back to tape? i.e. Are you planning on sending the outputs from the drum machine to individual tracks, or are you just wanting to use multiple outputs during the mix?

I ask because if you're planning on writing the drum tracks to tape, you could accomplish the goal using the existing drum machine and just making two passes, the first pass being snare and kick panned hard left & right, and the second pass being the rest of the kit in stereo. If you're not writing to tape, then yes, you'd need something with more outputs.

The Alesis should sound fine. It's not in the same league as a TD-20, but the main difference the TD-20 would bring would be noticed if you were triggering them with V-Drum pads. If you're simply programming the drums with a sequencer, you probably won't notice much difference. The Alesis machines are solid, and are best-in-class when it comes to a budget machine with flexible output options and decent sample sounds.

For your MIDI I/O questions, I think the DR-5 will output it's MIDI sequence just fine... I checked the Boss website, but the only support documents I could find were the turbostart manuals - no MIDI charts. If it works like most drum sequencers, the MIDI for the drums should all be on channel 10, so you'd just set up the Alesis (or whatever you choose) to R/X (receive) MIDI on channel 10, and it will play back whatever data is transmitted by the DR-5.
 
Your DR5 should be able to trigger something like an Alesis fine - however, you may have to do some tweaks to make sure the MIDI transmits and receives data on the same channel and MIDI notes.

The industry standard is to use MIDI channel 10 for drums - and the normal MIDI default notes tend to be fairly standard kick = note 36, snare = note 38 etc. However, when buying used gear, there is always the possibility that people have assigned notes/sounds differently.

If you plan to track drums directly to tape (using multiple tracks) then using your DR5 and tracking two or more passes (as Kinetic suggested) could be an option that would not cost you for more gear. However, if you want the drums to be virtual tracks (not actually recorded until the final stereo tracking - then having more than 2 outs would make sense.

The Alesis DM5 is a good solid, dependable unit and there are alot still around which way they can be found for $100-$200. If you are creative and have enough channels on your mixer - you could combine an Alesis with your DR5 and possibly have 6 channels of drums.

I agree the TD20 would be way too costly just to get more drum outs (8 outs) - in particular if you do not plan to utilize drum pads to trigger the sounds.
 
Thanks for the replies all! I appreciate all the input! As I'm just working with the Tascam 38, I only have 8 tracks to work with...7 actually, as I stripe one track with SMPTE to run the DR-5. So, I really don't have the available tracks to record the drums directly to tape. My thought is to have the DR-5 trigger the DM5 and run the 4 outputs from the DM5 to my board for the mixdown (I have a Yamaha RM800-24...24 channel, 4 buss) I would assign one out to the snare, one to the kick, and the toms and cymbals to the other stereo pair. The two main outs on the DR-5 would be going to the board for bass and keys (the DR-5 only has the 2 outs). If I could get them cheap enough, I guess I could get 2 DM5s, and daisy chain them for 8 outputs! I am alos looking at the Roland TD-8 and TD-10, both of which have 4 outputs. How do you guys think the Alesis units compare to the Roland for ease of use and most importantly drum sounds. I would love to duplicate the snare and kick sound on the Steely Dan live DVD, 2 Against Nature!
 
Regarding the Alesis compared to the Roland (and I base this as an owner of a Roland TD10 and both an Alesis D4 and DM5.) The TD10 has 8 outs (not 4). It's been awhile since I've played a TD 8 - so I can't offer much of an opinion.

I personally think Alesis has better sounds right out of the box - but you don't get many option to tweak the sounds. They are relatively easy to use. Roland's stock sounds on a whole are not as good as the Alesis - but the TD10 gives a lot of parameters to adjust the type of head, size of the shell, room ambiance, etc. - which allows for a lot of customized sound. The TD10 also comes with a built-in muti-effects processor and compressor.

Also, the TD10 has several of the analog sounds like the 909 drum machine. I don't work with hip-hop/beat box music - but since all those original analog sounds came from Roland gear- the TD10 can provide very retro sounding analog sounds.

If memory serves, the TD8 does not have a lot of adjustable parameters. I have no idea how much a used TD8 or TD10 sells for. If I recall the TD10 retailed for about $1000 (just the brain - no pads). I don't think they sold the TD8 as a stand alone brain - but the whole kit, with pads, sold for $1000.

If you can afford a TD10 - it would kick butt on the Alesis D5 (and give you 8 outs) - but I'm not convinced a TD8 would be much better than the D5.
 
mikeh said:
If memory serves, the TD8 does not have a lot of adjustable parameters. I have no idea how much a used TD8 or TD10 sells for. If I recall the TD10 retailed for about $1000 (just the brain - no pads). I don't think they sold the TD8 as a stand alone brain - but the whole kit, with pads, sold for $1000.
Click to expand...

As I am an owner of a TD-8, I can attest the same parameters are there as on the TD-10: shell depth, tuning, head type, snare sensitivity, damping, etc., etc. The TD-8 has far fewer samples than it's big brother, though.

My TD-8 kit was around $2800 new. I've seen just the brains going for around $600 on the used market.
 
This is all great information folks. I appreciate all the input. The TD8 sounds like a good bang for the buck, but I'm going to try and get the 8 outputs. I have the channels on my board, and this would give me terrific flexibility with the drums on mixdowns. Looks like the only ones available with 8 outputs are the Roland TD-10; Roland TD-12. or the Alesis DM Pro. The TD 12 is definitely out of my price league ($1900 new), but I may be able to get a used TD10 in the $500 range. That's about $300 over my original budget...well, we all know how that goes.:cool: Regarding the TD-10, what is the TDW-1 expansion card? What does it add?
Thanks all!
 
The TDW-1 expansion card does two primary things:

1. It adds an additional bank of sounds - which in particular provides some improved cymbals sounds

2. It upgrades the module to respond to the multi trigger cymbal pads that came out after the TD10 was designed.

The original cymbal pads were two zone round pads (the same pads that came on all the lower line Roland drums - I don't remember the model numbers). Roland then came out with three zone cymbals (that looked and responded more like acoustic cymbals). The TDW-1 allowed the TD 10 to accept the three zone pads.

If you do not plan to use the Roland pads to trigger the TD-10 - then the TDW-1 has limited value. If you find a module that has the upgrade....cool - but for your purposes, it would not likely be worth paying extra for.
 
Alesis DMPro

That's great info on the TDW-1. As I will be using it just for the studio, it won't make much difference.
I might be able to get a very good deal on an Alesis DMPro. I know it only has 6 outputs as opposed to the 8 on the TD-10.
Anyone have any thought on the DMPro?
 
You might want to try Hydrogen. It's free. Just google hydrogen drums.

It is capable of saving individual stereo files for each drum when used in linux.
This can't be done when running it in windows, but you can solo out each drum and record wav files to do the same thing. It's just a little more work.

It's an ok drum machine. It sounds as good as the samples. Many drum kits are available for it. I use a kit multilayer MS stereo recorded by a guy in germany.

Les
 
.... never mind, sorry. Please ignore this post.
 
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Td-10

I finally pulled the trigger and bought a used Roland TD-10, with the TDW-1 Expansion. I love the 8 assignable outputs, so I can control individual drums on my board. I'm triggering it with my old Boss DR-5, that I have written all my songs on. Using just some of the preset kits, the drum sounds are great, especially compared to the ones on the DR-5. Although not the greatest, I used to think the kicks and snares on the DR-5 weren't bad, but now, it's no comparison! It has some pretty good effects and compression as well. I haven't had the chance to start building some kits, but that will come.
 
The more you work with the TD10 - tweaking the sounds, etc - the more you should like it.

Would you be willing to share how much you paid for the used TD10??
 
Td-10

I bought the TD-10 on Ebay. IT's the TD-10 with the TDW-1 expansion. Cosmetically it's in excellent shape and everything seems to work just fine. It came with the power cord, full manual for the Expanded version as well as a Roland M-512G memory card. I paid $675, which I thought was a pretty good price. Do you have a TD-10 Mike? If so, I'd love to ask you some questions about it.
 
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