Individual drum isolation (tracking rock/metal)

[Steve Henningsgard]

A question for all you super smarty-pants engineers out there: what techniques do you use to get good isolation for individual drum mics? I've been doing my best to point the tom mics away from the snare/cymbals, and to point the snare mic away from everything else and away from the hi-hat, but I still find myself having to cut each individual tom hit in "n00b-tools" 'cause the gate just ain't cutting it. What do you guys do?

 

[Daisy]

I don't make complete sonic isolation of each drum my goal.

For one, the laws of physics and sound just don't deem it realistic.

Secondly, I'm not convinced there would be a whole lot of sonic benefit to it -- even if it were theoretically possible.

We're actually discussing something kind of similar right now in the mic forum regarding accoustic guitar and voice. And one thing you might want to do is learn where the "null" points of your mics are, rather than simply "pointing away" from things. Often the attenuation is greatest towards the side of the mic, rather than the back.

But then again, how much of a given sound can you really expect to avoid when it's merely inches away from something that's being whacked really hard with a wooden stick? You have to keep your expectations at least somewhat realistic.

 

[tmix]

The only way to get total isolation would be to get an electric kit with seperate outs.

I am old school, I look at the drum set like a guitar or any instrument, i think trying to record the drum pieces in total isolation is like trying to record the individual strings of a guitar when it is being played.

I guess in all fairness it depends on what you consider "good isolation"

Tom

 

[Steve Henningsgard]

Both fair points! I guess the biggest problem I have is that the drummers I record are typically not professionals and thus hit the drums like pussy school girls. I'd imagine recording gets easier the longer you do it for multiple reasons, not the least of which including the quality of musicians that want to record with you must inevitably get better eventually

 

[tmix]

I feel your pain.
You are exactly right about drummers that hit like a 2 year old.

As a drummer gets better to where he / she is balanced in their playing it gets incredibly easier to get good drum tracks. In fact... it is nearly impossible otherwise without using a lot of drum replacement samples and really heavily editing them like you would a MIDI track. At that point.... it isn't like they ACTUALLY PLAYED the silly part.

 

[Daisy]

I'd imagine recording gets easier the longer you do it for multiple reasons, not the least of which including the quality of musicians that want to record with you must inevitably get better eventually

Not really.

You just get older.

They stay pretty much the same.

 

[toobalicious]

I guess the biggest problem I have is that the drummers I record are typically not professionals and thus hit the drums like pussy school girls.

wow, thats funny.... personally, i have spent the better part of the last ten years of my learn-to-be-a-drummer episodes learning how NOT to beat the shit out of the drums all of the time. i mean, really worked at it. and it was a HARD habit to unlearn. hell, i feel like i even have a "light touch" at this point. i can still wail when i want, but i find that i am twice the drummer when i dont. of course, i gave up metal years ago.
a

 

[robin watson]

wow, thats funny.... personally, i have spent the better part of the last ten years of my learn-to-be-a-drummer episodes learning how NOT to beat the shit out of the drums all of the time. i mean, really worked at it. and it was a HARD habit to unlearn. hell, i feel like i even have a "light touch" at this point. i can still wail when i want, but i find that i am twice the drummer when i dont. of course, i gave up metal years ago.
a

My last recording project had a hard hitting drummer, dynamics all over the place. Mind you I learned a good deal about compression, limiting and track-bouncing riding a fader!