I'm trying to figure out what it is I need here

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Mongoo

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At the moment I have a keyboard and a drum machine, both with midi connectors. My tascam Sx-1 has midi inputs (although one is just for syncing) and 4 midi outputs.


That being said, I think I would like to have a device that I could route all of my midi devices to and then Swich which one gets recorded by a button or something. What is it that I need here? and Better yet can you tell me one of good quality.

I really haven't worked much with midi but I want to change that. What can you tell me about all of the cool doors it opens up? And What are the best setup's to make the workflow of working with midi a breeze? Give me some of your creative idea's with what I could do here.

Thank you.

Mongoo
 
Mongoo said:
What can you tell me about all of the cool doors it opens up? And What are the best setup's to make the workflow of working with midi a breeze?
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If you have the money to buy an SX-1 you should probably hire someone to teach you to use it. That sounds flippant and I don't mean it that way, but it's a serious and very expensive piece of gear that has capabilities and functions that go well beyond what I'm able to talk you thru here.

In a nutshell, midi opens up a whole new dimension in your recordings that lay well beyond the capabilities of audio recording. Using one keyboard to play many sounds at once in sync with your drum machine is the tip of the iceberg. You can automate everything in your SX-1, from effects settings to level settings to equalizer settings. You can edit your keyboard performances until they are exactly the way you want to hear them even if they lay well beyond your actual capabilites as a player. You can change the key, time signature, tempo and meter of a piece of music you are working on to be as you hear it in your mind.

As far as workflow and making it a breeze, it's never going to be a breeze. There is always going to be some effort involved --- like plugging in a microphone or setting a compresser or an eq. But you have all you need right now, and the SX-1 manual should be able to give you a better explanation than I can. You don't need to add anything to be able to record what you choose at the push of a button - that capability is built into the SX-1 and it's sequencer/recorder.

I can and will offer one important tip --- connect the keyboard midi out to the SX midi in, then connect output 1 to the keyboard midi in. Before you do though, and this is very important, go into the global or the utility page on the keyboard and turn the 'local on/off' to the 'off' setting. This breaks the connection between the keyboard and the sound source inside. Then with the sync mode set to 'external' plug the drum machine into midi out 2 thereby making the SX-1 the master clock or tempo source.

Here are links to four good articles on midi basics - part one, part two, part three and part four.
 
Quality?

Can anyone vouche for the Midi Solutions Quadra Merge? They have them over at musician's friend. I think that might be all I need to hook multiple midi outs to the SX-1.

Has anyone here used this or other midi solutions products or experianced any problems with the devices?

Thanks,

Mongoo
 
It sounds like you really do not need anything else. The midi keyboard should be on the input and the output should go to your drum machine and the keyboard (or you can chain them through the midi "thru")

With 4 midi outs, you really should not need a merger since you can usually "thru" a couple of devices toghether without any problems and those will give you 64 midi channels to work with.

The drum machine does not really need to have anything other than the midi in connected since presumably you will be sequencing it with the SX1 (what drum machine are u using?)

When recording, you just arm the midi track and off you go so I think the functionality you are looking for is built in
 
Thanks,

Thanks for the reply altitude909,

But Here's the thing, I'm going to have the keyboard and drum machine in the control room. Then when a pianist comes in, I'll move it out into another room for them, So I need midi connections out there too. I guess I don't know if there is a difference from a midi thru box or a midi merger, but I thought I might be able to save on some unplugging with the merger if everything was routed through that. Is the merger something different than a basic midi router or thru box? With a box all I would have to do is unplug the keyboard, move it and replug.

What do you mean I would have 64 channels? I thought midi cables only allowed 16 channels at a time.

Thanks,

Mongoo
 
Mongoo said:
What do you mean I would have 64 channels? I thought midi cables only allowed 16 channels at a time.
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16 channels times 4 separate midi outputs equals 64 midi channels.

When words are in blue in either a post or a reply that means the are 'links'. Clicking on a 'link' will bring you to a different web site that has some bearing on the question or topic at hand. Did you even look at the links I provided you with?

As far as the control room/tracking room issue goes, midi is a 31.2K baud serial language and can travel between 30 and 50 feet depending on conditions and how much information the wire is asked to carry. Try it and if you have a problem post again.
 
Thank you Sscientist

I know what a link is, but thank you for your clarification. I did read the links, even printed them out. Thank you very much for your effort as I found them very educational. I'm still trying to grasp some details though.

I know the sx-1 has 4 outs and hence the 64 out channels, but If I want to have the Keyboard and drum machine booth having their outs hooked up to the sx-1's in, in room A, wouldn't I need to some type of box to merge or route booth signals into one to be accepted into the sx-1's one input? The Singular input of the SX-1 should only allow 16 channels at a time correct?

If I connected the two devices using the thru connector, I would have to not only disconnect the keyboard everytime I moved it, but also disconnect the drum machine, Plus I would have to have an extra 20' midi cable to reach from the drum machine to the keyboard when it sits in room B.

Whether or not I use some type of box or use the thru of the devices, I should still only have 16 channels that can go through a single midi cable and into the SX-1 at any time, correct? I mean there are only two Midi In's and one of them are designated for Midi Time Code, Which by the way, would I hook up either the drum machine or keyboard to this Midi Time Code in connector, or do I need a completely different device for it's use?

Can you tell me if a "Midi Merger" is the same thing as a "Thru Box"?

I want the drum machine to remain hooked up to the sx-1 even when I move the keyboard into another room. And I need a way to hook up 2 midi devices in room A and one midi device in room B, all into the Singular Midi In of the SX-1, unless one of them can be connected to the MTC connection.

I hope that explains what I'm trying to get across. I'm still letting my new found midi knowlege be absorbed. Thanks again for the Links Ssscientist.

Mongoo
 
Why do you need the drum machines out connected to anything? Just use the SX 1 as your master clock
 
The Singular input of the SX-1 should only allow 16 channels at a time correct?
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Yes, but the SX-1 will allow you to route that input to any of the four outputs internally. It already has --- built in --- what you're looking for in an external box.
Can you tell me if a "Midi Merger" is the same thing as a "Thru Box"?
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No. A midi merger does just what it the name implies - it merges two incoming midi streams into one midi out. It's mostly used for merging, for example, a midi keyboard with a midi fader box to get the notes from the keyboard and the continuous controllers from the fader box. A midi thru box is used to route one signal to the destination device of your choice, which can be selected either manually or over midi using midi notes, CC data or systems exclusive commands. You do not need either one of these to put the SX to use in your studio.

You, as my mother used to say, are 'borrowing trouble' in trying to out-think the SX before you get it fired up. Just hook it up as I outlined in my post above - keyboard (with local control off) into the midi in, output 1 back into the keyboard and output 2 to the drum machine in with the sync of the drum machine set to 'external'. That means the midi clock from the SX will keep the drum machine in perfect sync with any project that doesn't change tempo every quarter note. And forget about midi time code for now. That will come in handy when you want to lock the SX to other devices that have sequencers in them, like computers and other fancy stuff.
 
...

Okay, so what is being suggested is that I hook up the Keyboards midi out to the midi in on the Sx1 and the midi out's on the sx1 into the Keyboard midi in and drum machine midi in, correct?

My question is this then.

If, for connecting the Keyboard to the sx1, I have in room A, a six foot midi cable used for the connection, and in room B I have a 20 foot midi cable for connection, How can I move the keyboard back and forth between rooms A & B with it still being connected to the SX1 and without haveing to change which midi cable is plugged into the SX1's midi in? The goal being to only have to unplug the cables from the keyboard itself.


My next question, and maybe there is no need for this, I don't know.

If the drum machine is only setup with it's midi in connected to the sx1's midi out, how would I use it as a controler for making beats or what I mean to say is if I made a series of beats with it that I wanted to use in the sx1 how would I then send that information without the midi out hooked up to the sx1?

Maybe I don't need this, I don't know yet. I suppose the keyboard could be used to make a drumbeat just as well. I guess I just thought the drum machine might be able to top the keyboard in this feild.

These are my main concerns with the current suggestion. Is there something I'm not seeing here?

Thank you for your time.

Mongoo
 
a little more

I feel I should explain what my thinking was in the quadra merge.

The quadra merge can combine multiple signals (4) into one output, right? Well If I will half of the time be recording keyboard midi in room A, and the other half of the time be recording keyboard midi in room B, but never recording both at the same time, wouldn't the merger just act as a router since it wouldn't be combinding the signal with anything else? It would just be taking in one signal, be it from room A or room B and sending to one out which would be connected the the sx1's midi in. This way I wouldn't have to change the midi in plugs every time I moved the keyboard from room to room.

So I wouldn't actually be merging anything at all, just useing the merger to have all sources hooked up without haveing to change anything.

The same idea applies to sending any drumbeats created on the drum machine. My thinking was not based on the drum machine being the master clock.

Just thought I'd clarify that.

Thanks,

Mongoo
 
Drum machines have internal sounds. Drum samplers -- like Akai's MPC series -- have a fexible set of user defined samples. My suggestion for a starting point is based on the assumumption that you will use either the internal sounds or internal samples originating from within the drum machine to provide rhythm tracks. If you want to use the pads of the drum machine as a midi controller for sounds from another unit, that where midi merging or a midi thru box would come in to play.
So I wouldn't actually be merging anything at all, just useing the merger to have all sources hooked up without haveing to change anything.
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Yes. And if you're not going to merge anything you'd be better off with a simple and much cheaper midi thru box.

As far as the 6' versus the 20' midi cable, if you plan to frequently move the keyboard a distance of 20' then hook it up with the 20' cable. The midi connection will function exactly the same with the 6' or the 20' midi cable.
 
okay,

I won't be able to just hook up the keyboard to the 20' cable. The 20' cable will be routed behind a wall into the studio, the 6 footer is for when the keyboard is in the control room so I can use it in all its glory.

What midi thru box or merger would you recommend if you think the Midi solutions quad merger is too expensive for my needs? What brands/models are out there in general for midi thru boxes & mergers in general that you would recommend as a quality unit?

I would like to be able to use the drum machine mainly as a metronome replacement for ease in tracking, and also as a possible background track depending on the material being worked on.

Thanks,

Mongoo
 
You win. I give up.

I'm tired of trying to talk sense to you only to have you ignore my advice.

Start using the damned thing! Do a few projects on it! Take it for a shakedown cruise or two! Don't worry if you don't have all your intended microphones or monitors or keyboards or drum machines - make do with what you have and concentrate on getting to know the SX. Don't worry too much about composition and if you've got poor microphones for now don't worry about sound quality --- just get started using the machine. And your logistical concerns about control room versus tracking room and how long the midi cable should be sound to me like you're finding excuses for not starting right now.

Read the manual. Everything you need to know to use the SX is in there.
 
...

Thank you for your input Ssscientist. I apologize if this thread seems frustrating to you. It is not meant to be, and I am not trying to ignore your advice, rather just have my concerns addressed.

I will certainly take up your advice to start immediate work on additional projects and continue to read the user's manual. I'm about 3/4 of the way through it as is.

Thank you also for checking the midi solutions page. It is good to know you think their Quadra Merge is a fine device. I understand you think it is unnecessary but I have not heard of another way to accomplish my routing goals.

Again, thank you for your time.

Mongoo
 
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