I'm poor...am I screwed?

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mutedphotos

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First, I'm not sure if this is the right thread for this, but anyway,

So here's my current setup: Crate DX212 digital guitar amp plugged into the back of my 1-yr old iMac, recording with garageband. For electric guitar I obviously just plug it into the amp, and I'm happy enough with that. My real problem is with recording acoustic (both steel and nylon). I have a dynamic mic from RadioShack (I'm sure I'll catch flak for that). Plugging the mic directly into the iMac doesn't give me enough volume (and if I boost the gain in garageband it just gets noisy), so I've been plugging the mic into the amp and recording that way, but I can't get a natural acoustic sound through the amp.

Would something like the Art Tube MP preamp or M-Audio Fast Track work well enough just to give me more natural sounding acoustic recordings? I'm sure a better mic would help, but then I'd still need some kind of preamp, yes? And I only have $100-$150, which could easily be taken up by the mic alone. Obviously I don't expect professional quality here.

Do I have any real options?
 
Save up some more money before you buy anything and get yourself a Rode NT5 condensor mic. Their around $200 and then you'll need a preamp with phantom power which you can get pretty cheap.
 
NYMorningstar said:
Save up some more money before you buy anything and get yourself a Rode NT5 condensor mic. Their around $200 and then you'll need a preamp with phantom power which you can get pretty cheap.
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What exactly do you consider cheap? Would the Art TubeMP or a Behringer MIC100/200 work? I'm starting with a max $150 budget and I'm already looking at a minimum of $230 with that mic. If my mic is a problem certainly there must be something between the $30 radioshack mic and the $200 NT5? Maybe a mic somewhere in the $100-$125 range + the Art/Behringer pre?
 
let me also stress again that I'm not looking for professional or studio quality sound here. This is really just for personal enjoyment. And keep in mind what I'm currently dealing with. If I can get a better sound by just adding the Art/Behringer tube preamp than that would be great, but if I NEED to spend more to see any real improvement in quality, I can go up to about $150.
 
mutedphotos said:
Would something like the Art Tube MP preamp or M-Audio Fast Track work well enough just to give me more natural sounding acoustic recordings? I'm sure a better mic would help, but then I'd still need some kind of preamp, yes? And I only have $100-$150, which could easily be taken up by the mic alone. Obviously I don't expect professional quality here.

Do I have any real options?
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The preamp will give you more volume, however it will not improve the sound of the mic. If the mic is crummy, you'll get the same crummy sound - just louder.

On a micro-budget, I agree with your choice of an ART Tube MP - you can pick these up for around $30 now, I think. As far as a mic selecton on that budget, I would think of something that can handle multiple duties for $100 or less. If you want something that will last forever, maybe a Shure SM-58 ($99). For something not quite as rugged, but with a more articulate sound, a condenser like an MXL 990 ($70), Audio Technica AT2020 ($99), or AKG Perception 120 ($99) would be good choices. BTW, my pick of those three would be the AT2020 - but I'm biased as I currently own two of them. :)
 
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Try a lexicon those are really cheap they have some features, good pre, and they come with cubase you can get the most basic one for 80 bucks
 
chicks don't usually go for dudes who don't have money, so i'd say you're probably not gonna be screwed.
 
KineticSound said:
The preamp will give you more volume, however it will not improve the sound of the mic. If the mic is crummy, you'll get the same crummy sound - just louder.

On a micro-budget, I agree with your choice of an ART Tube MP - you can pick these up for around $30 now, I think. As far as a mic selecton on that budget, I would think of something that can handle multiple duties for $100 or less. If you want something that will last forever, maybe a Shure SM-58 ($99). For something not quite as rugged, but with a more articulate sound, a condenser like an MXL 990 ($70), Audio Technica AT2020 ($99), or AKG Perception 120 ($99) would be good choices. BTW, my pick of those three would be the AT2020 - but I'm biased as I currently own two of them. :)
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I think this might be my route. I'll probably pick up the ART pre and see how it sounds, then look at mics if I'm still unhappy. Thanks for the recommendations!

EDIT: Do you think the ART Tube MP is a better bet than the Behringer Mic100 or Mic200? The Mic200 has voicing control for $40. The ART Tube StudioV3 has similar control, but at $70 (The regular Art Tube MP without the voicing control is $30)
 
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Hm, I keep reading that the starved-plate tube design used by ART and Behringer give a good bit of distortion to the signal. Is this true? I'm not really looking to add color to my sound, just to get a more natural sound. I certainly don't want to add an overdriven effect to my classical (nylon) guitar recordings.

Would a solid state pre be a better idea? For that matter, would a USB interface be the best option? I'm not sure of the quality of the soundcard in my iMac and whether I'm losing quality by plugging straight into the audio input on the back of the iMac. If an interface would be best, maybe something like the Fast Track, or maybe the Tascam 122L?

If a USB interface isn't necessary, would I be best getting something like the M-Audio DMP3?

Eh...this is complicated....sorry to ask so many questions, but with a limited budget I don't want to start down the wrong path!


EDIT: btw, I should have mentioned that I don't do vocals, this is just for acoustic recording, as I'm pretty happy with the sound of my electric guitar.
 
Now we're on to something completely different. Your OP read that you were motivated by keeping it simple and on the cheap. Now you're on to interfaces and such... I mean this constructively: if you're serious about doing it right, bring your checkbook. If you want to start with something simple and upgrade later, I would stay clear of low-end USB interfaces that you'll quickly outgrow.

Yes, there's a world of difference between plugging an output signal from a cheap mic preamp into your iMac's line in and going to an external audio interface. I can talk about the latter option for days.

A cheap ART Tube MP will provide the preamplification you want if you learn to use it properly. I still have one around my home studio that's used as a direct box on commercial recordings. This "Tube MP will distort your sound" stuff is rubbish, unless you insist on overdriving the input circuit. Does the Tube MP have limitations? You bet. But it's $30; you get what you pay for. Behringer is, IMHO, a little bit of a crapshoot. I've still got a Voicemaster VX2496 that I bought years ago, and it sounds halfway decent, but oddly all the other Behri gear that I've ever bought has found it's way to either eBay or the dumpster. On the other hand, I picked up my TubeMP in 1996 (when they were $130!), replaced the tube in 2001, and it still gets use. You be the judge.
 
KineticSound - Thanks a lot for all your help. I think I get a little caught up in forum arguments about gear. I'll go with the Tube MP and see what I get, then probably start looking at the mics you suggested (the AT2020 is on Amazon for $70). I can manage a $30 loss if I don't like the MP, though I'm sure I'll find use for it. Thanks again!
 
Not contradicting any of the good advise you have already received...

I think you would do okay with the ART tube pre amp, or a solid-state pre amp, too.

If you decide to go the condenser mic route like the AT2020, be aware that they require phantom power, which your computer will not provide. So, you would need to get a pre-amp so something that will give you that, this jacking up your expense. The occasional condenser mic may run off a AA battery, they do not need Phantom power.

There are several devices that can serve as a pre-amp, you may already have one or more:

Small mixer boards will all have pre amps. a behringer EURORACK MX602A can be had, new for about $80.

A stomp-box device may work as a pre-amp. I personally use a stomp-box EQ as a pre-amp. A chorus, reverb, maybe others, with the effect turned all the way down but the level turned up some should do the trick. An accoustic guitar simulator might work with a (gasp!) acoustic guitar and mic.

A multi-effect unit will have a pre-amp.

Digitech JamMan looper- even has an XLR in.

Keyboard or bass amp that has an effects loop. Go from the effects or pre-amp out to the computer. (electric guitar amp with effect loop will technically have it, too, but the tone will probably be to "electric guitar, and tush unpleasing for accoustic.)
 
If I was in your shoes I would just stick it out and save up an extra hundred or two and buy something like a(I always recommend this one cause its good and I have one and love it to death) M-Audio Mobile pre USB and say a Studio Projects B1 both very good for the money and the mic is usable if your careful with volume for micing your amp.

You will be better off in terms of noise and so on if you get a interface.

Just my thought, And don't be afraid of lower priced USB interfaces just choose wisely.
 
Stevieb - the TubeMP Studio (the $30 one) has 48V phantom power, so I should be ok with using a condenser mic through that.

AndrewClaycomb - Thanks, I've bookmarked the site and I'll look into it. The audio samples they provide sound nice, though I'm not sure I like that they're all omnidirectional.
 
mutedphotos said:
What exactly do you consider cheap? Would the Art TubeMP or a Behringer MIC100/200 work? I'm starting with a max $150 budget and I'm already looking at a minimum of $230 with that mic. If my mic is a problem certainly there must be something between the $30 radioshack mic and the $200 NT5? Maybe a mic somewhere in the $100-$125 range + the Art/Behringer pre?
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Your mic is going to make a huge difference in your sound. Just go to the music store and listen for yourself. Shoot you could go panhandle the difference if you had to. What you don't want to do is to buy a bunch of low quality stuff you won't need tomorrow. Keep in mind your sound is going to be only as good as the weakest link in your audio chain.
 
eeerm, if you are going to spend 100 bucks on a mic pre, i STRONGLY suggest ditching the tube wannabees and looking for a used DMP3. I found one for 70 bucks.:eek: best pre by far in its price range.

http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=m38.l1313&_nkw=DMP3&_sacat=See-All-Categories

no great deals atm :( but you see, they are about 160 new.... if you wait for a used one youll be fine

however, i do like limiter and valve voicings on the beri for dirtying up stuff, even though it doesnt sound like a "real" tube pre.

after that, get a rip off sm57 from here (every bit as good as the real thing):

http://www.speakerrepair.com/Mercha...OD&Product_Code=MP2&Category_Code=microphones

40 bucks with cable and clip and case!!!!

and there you go, easily in your price range, if you can find a used DMP3.

and much better than any of the other suggestions here (although well intentioned).

not to mention you can find cheapo condensers or other dynamics in that price range.
 
zed32 said:
chicks don't usually go for dudes who don't have money, so i'd say you're probably not gonna be screwed.
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what ive learned is its money or personality...

sorry for the dudes that dont have the latter ;)
 
jasonbmerrill;3065292 after that said:
http://www.speakerrepair.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=MP2&Category_Code=microphones[/url]

40 bucks with cable and clip and case!!!!

and there you go, easily in your price range, if you can find a used DMP3.

and much better than any of the other suggestions here (although well intentioned).
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Why would you suggest a dynamic mic("get a rip off sm57") for acoustic recording? And what's this("much better than any of the other suggestions here") , king of the hill? I hope you're more focused spending your own money that is if you have any left after the women.:rolleyes::D
 
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