I'm pleased with these 2 tracks, but I'd love to hear where I can improve

[dynis]

Hi all,

I was hoping to get a few tips on these 2 latest songs from my band; I like the sound and mix we have so far, but there's always room for improvement when you're still learning.

Pass the Time is a slower rock song, while Frigid is a faster, more alternative rock song. I can't seem to post links until I have 10 posts so I attached them here and you can also find the SoundCloud links in my signature.

All comments welcome! Thanks for listening!

 

[toad_uk]

Hi dynis. Liked the songs. Track 1 Snare a bit dry, liked the bass sound (I like a bit of crunch, was it a Fender Jazz by any chance?), vocals where quite dry but I liked it like that, although backing vox could sound better with more reverb. Distorted guitars could have been more upfront, maybe a little louder.

Track 2, would have like to hear the rhythm guitars overdubbed or double tracked and panned l+r . Some elements of the drums too wide, could probably be panned less wide (drums are a bugger to record, the kick sounded nice and solid).

 

[dynis]

Hey toad! Thanks for the tips. I have a couple of questions if you don't mind clarifying.

For track 1's snare, do you mean too much "crack" and not enough "rattle"? Or do you mean adding reverb on the snare? I'm not sure what kind of bass it is; I just texted my bassist to ask him, haha. I played with the reverb a lot on the front and background vocals but I think I'm just not too good at mixing vocals yet. If you have any vocal mixing tips I'm all ears; this is probably the place I'd like to improve most. I agree on the distorted guitar. That's something I completely hadn't noticed being so quiet until you pointed it out.

For track 2, we actually have 3 rhythm tracks on there but I don't know how to improve the sound of them. The first track is in the center and the other 2 are panned left and right. These were recorded line-in though, so you just don't get that spacious sound from them and I'm not sure what I can do to improve the sound of them in post-production. If anyone has ideas I'd love to try them.

Regarding the drums in track 2, do you mean that each drum/snare/cymbal should ring through more centrally in the headphones instead of being panned to each direction like a real drum set? I'm not sure how drums are normally mixed, so I want to understand if that's what you meant by "too wide" and if adjusting them more centrally would help it sound better.

Thanks for your feedback! I hope a few others will drop some comments in here so I can get a rounded perspective.

 

[toad_uk]

On the snare on track one, I'd have just liked some more reverb, although there does seem to be more crack than rattle, but that's just down to taste it reminds me of the snare sound on Samson's 'Head On' album.

The drums on track 2 there's a cymbal that seems way out on the left and almost sounds like it's not part of the kit, it could do with being brought in a tad.

To get that spacious sound when recording guitars through the line in, you could try adding a little ambient reverb, you could do it when tracking, although then your stuck with it (but then you would be if it was natural ambience picked up from the room) so maybe an ambient patch and then whatever reverb patch you where going to use anyway.

It might be worth playing with eq a bit more. Somewhere around the 2-4khz can bring out the guitars and snare, but try not to use the same frequency for them all otherwise they may blend too much (but then sometimes that works as well). Some times with guitars I find dropping off everything below about 100hz can bring them out more and sometimes scooping out a bit around 300hz (although too much can loose some of the body). I'm no expert myself, but I think these are sort of common things to try.

Don't forget I'm hearing it as it is and so may just accept that that's how it's meant to sound, but you'e probably already got a sound in your head that you want it to be like so ma not be happy with it even when everyone else thinks it's good. It's very hard to be objective.

 

[Clam Soup]

I like the feel of both songs. Both of them need a little more heft in the vocals.... in the first one this might be accomplished by having your backing vocalist stay with you a bit more in the lyric at the start - and then doing some freestyling/adlibbing toward the middle and end. Also I'd bring your lead guitar into play early... not loud, but to give more melody to the vocal..... sort of a third singer.

In the second song I'd get a little deeper into your own voice.... more assertive - maybe lower EQ? Depth..... and I'd have backing vocals yelling into their mics through choruses.

The playing and tightness is great - good energy. Love the drums.

 

[dynis]

Toad,

Thanks for answering my questions! Really great feedback on the guitars in particular. I'll try playing with the EQ a bit and see if I can get a more diverse sound with the overdubbing on these tracks. Also glad to get some feedback on the drums; I've had a tough time mixing them, the snare in particular.

Clam,

Glad you liked them! Regarding the vocals in the first song, do you mean having the background vocals during the verse or were you just saying you think they should come in earlier in the chorus and stick closer to the lead singer? I do like the idea of some freestyle lyrics; that's a concept we hadn't tried on this song that might work well. Same thing with the lead guitar, you mean having it come in during the verse or did I misunderstand?

On the second song, I agree with your assessment of the vocals. Listening to the vocals more strictly I do think our singer could have done better. We often have to prod him after he records a verse like, "Jeff.. Jeff, c'mon.. seriously, we know you sing louder and better than that!" He has a lot of depth to his voice, but sometimes we have to coax it out of him.

When you say to have the backing vocals yelling into their mics, do you mean to turn the backing vocals up or are you referring to the emphasis and energy of the background vocals?

The playing and tightness is great - good energy. Love the drums.

Thanks! These are our best recordings yet and we're pretty excited. I'm the drummer, so double thanks!

 

[TripleM]

Pass The Time. Sounded OK.

I'd compress the vocal more. I'd probably also do a volume envelope. There are words here and there that I can't hear and some sections where the vocal is too loud.

Bass has some frequencies that really jump out. The bass sound needs more control. I think the playing is consistent enough, but it's some boomy frequencies jumping out.

Agree that the snare needs just a touch of reverb. A small plate might be cool.

Frigid. I liked this one more. I liked the guitar sounds. Bass is under better control.

Vocal sits out front a bit too much most of the time. Words at the end of phrases tend to get buried. Other words really jump out. Needs more control. Singer has a decent voice, but could use some better mic control. Pitchy note on the word "play" at 1:23 - half step flat? Or was that how it's supposed to be?

 

[dynis]

Thanks for the tips TripleM! We had a horrid time trying to get the vocals to sound right on Pass the Time due to the volume changes. I've never heard of a "volume envelope", so maybe I need to go play around in Logic until I can figure out how to do that because it sounds exactly like what we needed to do.

I agree on the bass critique. I like how the bassist played it, but it's a 5 string bass and I think it's a bit harder for me to mix. Is there a way to tighten something like that up without losing the presence of the bass? Can you do that with the compressor?

Thanks for the second opinion on the snare. I'll definitely look into some reverb.

Regarding the vocals, do you have any tips on getting them not to sit out in front so much? I don't think you just mean volume right? I'm still trying to understand how to mix vocals better so they feel more ingrained in the music and not like they're sitting on top of it. Regarding the phrases getting buried at the end of the lines, is this the type of thing that could be fixed with compression and the vocal envelope you were talking about? Or do you recommend having the vocalist record it over and keep the volume more constant?

And yes, I think he might be slightly off on that note, heh.

Thanks so much for listening and commenting! This feedback will really help me get better and improve our future recordings.

 

[TripleM]

I think the control of the bass should be done with a combination of compressor and EQ - but more EQ than compressor. If you're already compressing it, I'd lower the threshold by a few dbs. But I think the bigger factor would be the EQ. There are some low frequencies, say maybe in the 80hz - 160hz octave, that really jump out. You need to find those and cut a very narrow, and rather deep, notch with EQ. There may be two or three problem frequencies in that range.

There are probably a couple of things I'd do with the vocal. One - the vocal seemed dryer than the rest of the tracks. I'd experiment with a medium room or plate reverb, use a somewhat long predelay (~80 msec or so), and cut the early reflections. But probably the bigger thing to help with this is a volume envelope. Just a fancy term for automating the volume of the vocal - turn it up where it gets soft and turn it down where it gets loud. Google "volume envelopes in Logic" and see what turns up.