I'm not exactly a 'newbie' but...

[Editor]

...let's say I'm in my late 40's. I did a bit of gigging around a 'few' years ago & even messed with a Fostex 4-tracker & drum machine for a while. Life intervened & I had to sell off my Marshall half-stack, my Fostex, my Les Paul & Strat & all my pedals ( ~tears on my keyboard~)

Anyway, I've got the bug to play/record again and was hoping that I could avoid all the expense of re-buying everything & just use my computer (I ~do~ have a guitar that I cobbled together and a decent amp so things haven't been totally silent around here ;-)

What I would basically like to do is add guitar tracks to those I have made in Fruity Loops (mostly drum/synth/bass sequences) and also hear realtime FX added to my guitar input.

I have been told that Cubase would make this possible ... true?

Also, I have been reading as much as I can find about Cubase but frankly a lot of it is confusing to This Old Dog ... VST SPDIF ... most of the sites I have visited don't really explain in simple terms what is possible.

I am a Non-Linear Video Editor by trade so I understand some of what I read. My computer is a hopped up emachine (600 mhz, 256 ram, XP) and I just recently installed a Soundblaster Live! 5.1 card. My amp is a Traynor Block with pre-amp outs & I also have a DOD 260 direct box.

What's possible?

 

[SPINSTERWUN]

What's your budget?

 

[drstawl]

In order to get a sound that is on a par with the best that Fostex could muster I'd focus on getting a better sound card first. That SoundsGhastly will work but you can get a world of improvement (at reasonable bang for the buck trade-off) with a variety of drop-in PCI card solutions. Your e-machine is fast enough to do a fair number of tracks- (virtual synths might crap out on ya, effects plug-ins might have to be applied destructively- you know the drill.
Personally I found both the Logic stuff and the Steinberg stuff way too confusing. But once you know the interface it doesn't much matter. I think Sonic Foundry (Vegas) still has the cleanest, most straighforward layout.

 

[Editor]

What's your budget?

Well, $0 would make the bank happy ;-) They would like me to keep those mortgage payments going. I don't think anyone in that establishment knows about making music ... or fun for that matter ;-)

I can scrape up a few bucks but the idea is to work with what I have if possible.

 

[Editor]

In order to get a sound that is on a par with the best that Fostex could muster I'd focus on getting a better sound card first.

Actually, I thought I did when I upgraded from the Soundblaster 16 to the Live. Guess Soundblaster is a dirty word around here huh? I'm not necessarily after top-quality here. My old Fostex was the one with the cassette recorder that ran at 3 3/4 ips--not exactly studio quality ;-) Hell, I use hearing aids now (heriditary...not Marshall-induced ;-) ... so most of my playing/mixing is going to be through headphones.

Personally I found both the Logic stuff and the Steinberg stuff way too confusing. But once you know the interface it doesn't much matter. I think Sonic Foundry (Vegas) still has the cleanest, most straighforward layout.

Yeah, I think the Cubase route is a bit of overkill for my needs (mostly a hobby right now). I have a way-old copy of Vegas...Vegas Audio. It works pretty good but like I mentioned before, I would like to add some effects in real-time without going out & buying the old stomp boxes. I don't pretend to understand all there is to know about latency and such but I have been told that something like Cubase will allow real-time monitoring and the use of effects to a certain degree.

 

[AlChuck]

The SB Live is perfectly adequate to work with.

 

[drstawl]

>Guess Soundblaster is a dirty word around here huh?

Not really. I used an AWE32 for a long time until someone turned me on to DAL. I simply can't heartily recommend anything that uses 1/8" stereo miniplugs vs. a more serious card with 1/4" connectors. The DAL used RCA's but was a step in the right direction.

 

[Jotosuds]

i'll just regurgitate what i've been told numerous times by the experts.

you might want a better sound card

M-Audio Audiophile 2496 - $150

a mic preamp

M-Audio Audiobuddy - $80
or something nicer

cables - probably 50 bucks

monitors - expensivoso

behringer truths
yorkville YSM-1
event 20/20

mics

shure sm57 80 bucks
studio projects B1 - 80 bucks
lots more but those two are recommended


apparantely w/all that stuff, you can make decent recordings. i've never tried any of that stuff except audiobuddy, but that's what the experts say.

good luck!

 

[Editor]

Hmmm...not quite getting the responses I'd hoped for but I think that may be my fault. Ok, try again...

1) I've got some experience in home recording. It is out of date
experience but that's why I'm asking questions here
2) I have a fairly decent computer setup & soundcard
3) I would like to do some multi-tracking with my guitar & be able
to add effects & hear them while recording
4) My budget is <$100 else if I had more, I'd just take money
down to the pro studio & have them do all the work
5) My old experience taught me that breaking the rules of
recording usually lead to more fun--I once bounced 28
tracks on the Fostex 4-tracker! S/N ?!? ... NP ... play
everything LOUD! I was hoping you guys would have
some 'rule-breaking' ideas? 'Throw money at it' is old.

Hey! Don't get me wrong. I listened to some of your posted
recordings....you guys & gals are good! ... way outta my league!
...but I don't think the music is good just because you used the
latest/best equipment.

 

[drstawl]

Throwing money at a shitty setup is not what I had in mind.
More like carefully decoupaging it up in $20 bills....

 

[FattMusiek]

What's your budget?

Heh, he asks that everytime this question is asked.

 

[M.Brane]

IMHO the first thing you need is a couple decent mics and a good preamp to plug 'em into. You can go a long way with the Soundblaster if you've got a good front-end. Already some good suggestions in that dept. A cheap mixer is also an option, just don't expect stellar sound quality. Sometimes it's nice to have the extra signal routing options though.

A decent monitoring setup is the next thing to consider. Real monitors are not cheap, but by comparing your mixes on a couple different sets of speakers & cans you can get there. Just takes more time.

As for an app, there's quite a few out there. If you look around a bit you may be able to find an older version of a major app on the cheap. I use ProToolsFree on my Mac, but I've heard that the Windows version can be problematic.

 

[SPINSTERWUN]

Heh, he asks that everytime this question is asked.

I ask that question because I don't want to waste my/their time posting information that is not pertinent.

I don't want to offer information that they don't need.

For example..... when all they want to spend is under $100.00, I don't want to post this...

Qty Item Description Price Ext Price

A PRO TOOLS

1 Power Mac G5 Dual 2GHZ 512MB ram $2,999.00 $2,999.00
1 1GIG Ram DDR upgrade $250.00 $250.00
2 Apple 23" Cinema HD Display $1,999.00 $3,998.00
1 Argosy 90-PC32-RRG console $3,190.00 $3,190.00
1 Digidesign Control console $11,995.00 $11,995.00
5 Digidesign Fader Pack $6,495.00 $32,475.00
1 Digidesign Pro Tools HD3 System $10,495.00 $10,495.00
4 Digidesign 192 I/O interfaces $3,400.00 $13,600.00
1 Digidesign SCSI 64 w SCSI $545.00 $545.00
1 Pro Tools 13 Slot Expansion Chassis $1,800.00 $1,800.00
1 Digidesign Digidrive 36GB 10K RPM $990.00 $990.00
1 Digidesign digidrive 72GB 10K RPM $1,450.00 $1,450.00
1 Digidrive Rackmount Kit $93.00 $93.00
1 192 AD Card $1,295.00 $1,295.00
1 192 DA Card $1,195.00 $1,195.00
1 192 digital card $995.00 $995.00
1 Digidesign Midi I/O $550.00 $550.00
1 Digidesign Sync I/O $1,850.00 $1,850.00
1 Digidesign Pre $2,200.00 $2,200.00
1 Waves Plat TDM bundle $3,200.00 $3,200.00
1 Antares Autotune TDM $475.00 $475.00
1 Massive Pack Plug in Bundle $1,195.00 $1,195.00
2 Control Digi snake kit $599.00 $1,198.00
7 Digisnake DB25 to TRS $90.00 $630.00
Subtotal A $98,663.00

B MONITORING

2 Genelec 1032A sing 10" 2-way monitors $2,200.00 $4,400.00
2 Genelec 1039A dual 15" 3-way monitors $6,710.00 $13,420.00
1 Genelec 7073A quad 15" subwoofer $5,974.00 $5,974.00
5 Mackie HR-824 sing 8" 2-way monitors $565.00 $2,825.00
2 Yamaha NS10 sing 5.25" 2-way monitors $150.00 $300.00
1 Hafler P1500 power amplifier $450.00 $450.00
Subtotal B 27369

C HARDWARE

2 Avalon VT737sp Mic/Pre/Comp $1,900.00 $3,800.00
1 DBX 120 A/XP Sub-Harmonic $299.00 $299.00
2 Universal Audio 6176 mic pre/comp/limtr/eq $2,195.00 $4,390.00
2 Universal Audio 1176LN comp/limitr $1,600.00 $3,200.00
1 Manley VoxBox MicPre/Comp/Limtr/EQ $3,600.00 $3,600.00
1 Manley Massive Passive EQ $4,320.00 $4,320.00
1 Apogee Big Ben 192k Master Word Clock $1,200.00 $1,200.00
1 Apogee AD 16 AD converter $2,599.00 $2,599.00
1 Apogee DA 16 DA converter $2,599.00 $2,599.00
4 Empirical Labs EL8 Distressors w Brit + Image $1,985.00 $7,940.00
1 Emipirical Labs EL7 Fatso compressor $2,250.00 $2,250.00
1 Alesis • ADAT XT20 $980.00 $980.00
1 Tascam DA-45 24bit DAT Recorder $1,800.00 $1,800.00
Subtotal C 38977

D SYNTHS/SAMPLERS

1 Korg Triton 88 key Workstation $4,000.00 $4,000.00
1 Roland Fantom S 61 Key Workstation $2,095.97 $2,095.97
1 Yamaha Motif Rack Synthesizer $999.00 $999.00
1 Roland XV-5080 Synthesizer $0.00
1 Pioneer CDJ-1000 CD Turntable $1,169.99 $1,169.99
1 Technics SL1210 MKII Turntable $469.00 $469.00
1 Numark TTX1 Digital Turntable $399.00 $399.00
1 Vestax PMC 07 Pro DJ mixer $399.99 $399.99
Subtotal D 9532.95

E MICS

1 Neumann • U 87 Large Diaphram Microphone $2,346.00 $2,346.00
1 Neumann TLM103 Microphone $975.00 $975.00
2 AKG C414/ULS SE Microphone $700.00 $1,400.00
1 Rode NTK Microphone $500.00 $500.00
4 Shure SM-57 Dynamic Microphone $80.00 $320.00
2 Shure SM Beta-58a SuperCardioid
Microphone $164.00 $328.00
4 Audio Technica Pro 37R High SPL Cardioid Mic $140.00 $560.00
4 Sony MDR 7506 Headphones $99.67 $398.68
Subtotal E 6827.68
F BASS/GUITAR

1 Music Man Stingray 4 4-String Bass $1,299.99 $1,299.99
1 Yamaha Silent Guitar $550.00 $550.00
1 Warwick RockBass Corvette Classic $549.99 $549.99
1 Hartke Kickback 12 Bass Guitar Combo Amp $459.99 $459.99
1 Boss GT-6B Bass Multi Effect $399.99 $399.99
Subtotal F 3259.96




G MISCELLANEOUS

4 Furman PL Plus Surge Protector $159.00 $636.00
4 DBX PB-48 patch bay $129.00 $516.00
7 CNB ATA 4-Space Effects Rack $59.99 $419.93
3 CNB ATA 2-Space Effects Rack $49.99 $149.97
5 Auralex MoPad Monitor Isolation Pad $29.97 $149.85
2 High Back Executive Chair $149.98 $299.96
1 Neumann EA1 Nickel Shockmount $185.97 $185.97
1 Rode SM2 Shockmount $49.95 $49.95
1 Neumann Spider Shockmount $0.00 $0.00
1 AKG H100 Elastic Spider Shockmount $0.00 $0.00
6 Quik Lok MI Mic Stand $21.95 $131.70
6 Quik Lok Mic Boom $24.97 $149.82
4 Quik Lok Mic Stand Short W/Boom $35.97 $143.88
6 Quik Lok MI 329 Sheet Music Holder $25.97 $155.82
4 Atlas Mic Stand Tall W/5' Boom $259.97 $1,039.88
1 Quik Lok Z726 Keyboard Stand $199.97 $199.97
$0.00
4 Rubbermaid Diamond Chair Mat $15.99 $63.96
2 Open Mesh Task Chair $59.99 $119.98
1 Couches, TVs, Cables, Adapters, $5,000.00 $5,000.00
6 Shure Popper Stopper $26.19 $157.14
Subtotal G 9569.78

Subtotal of A - G $194,199.37
Tax $16,992.44


Total $211,191.81



Peace...

spin

 

[M.Brane]

Total $211,191.81



Peace...

spin

You don't really expect someone to buy that much gear, and pay full retail for everything.

Do you?

 

[ChristopherM]

As for an app, there's quite a few out there. If you look around a bit you may be able to find an older version of a major app on the cheap. I use ProToolsFree on my Mac, but I've heard that the Windows version can be problematic.

Magix Audio Studio is practically free.
Or you could go to the bookstore and keep an eye out for some of the mags that include CDs. Computer Music just did a "beginner's special" with a bunch of free stuff.

 

[mishappen]

...let's say I'm in my late 40's. I did a bit of gigging around a 'few' years ago & even messed with a Fostex 4-tracker & drum machine for a while. Life intervened & I had to sell off my Marshall half-stack, my Fostex, my Les Paul & Strat & all my pedals ( ~tears on my keyboard~)

Anyway, I've got the bug to play/record again and was hoping that I could avoid all the expense of re-buying everything & just use my computer (I ~do~ have a guitar that I cobbled together and a decent amp so things haven't been totally silent around here ;-)

What I would basically like to do is add guitar tracks to those I have made in Fruity Loops (mostly drum/synth/bass sequences) and also hear realtime FX added to my guitar input.

I have been told that Cubase would make this possible ... true?

Also, I have been reading as much as I can find about Cubase but frankly a lot of it is confusing to This Old Dog ... VST SPDIF ... most of the sites I have visited don't really explain in simple terms what is possible.

I am a Non-Linear Video Editor by trade so I understand some of what I read. My computer is a hopped up emachine (600 mhz, 256 ram, XP) and I just recently installed a Soundblaster Live! 5.1 card. My amp is a Traynor Block with pre-amp outs & I also have a DOD 260 direct box.

What's possible?

Editor,

Its possible to start recording now if you already have Cubase, and a way to bring your guitar direct into your 1/8" sound card. Or some sort of mic for your amp. It does seem that alot of people have "problems" with the soundblaster cards. I don't know I don't own one. I would think that "tracking" is the easier part of getting started. It's what you do after you get your sound recorded, that will require massive toying with and possibly a college degree.

(Thank YA for this forum!)

"VST" is a type of plug-in. ie.. reverb, compressor, chorous. Which I believe is native to Cubase.
"DX" is the same thing only native to programs such as Sonar. (which is what I use)

"SPDIF" (I believe is a digital thing) which you probably don't have to worry about anyway.

If you want to use Fruity Loops, I believe that the newest version will allow you to record audio directly into it. Other wise you have to, some how export your fl tracks into cubase. (either by wav file or by midi file, I'm guessing wav, because I've done drums in fl in this manner before) I don't do cubase but I'm sure the people in"cubase" could help you with that question.

And then, again, after you get your tracks laid down the possibilities are endless. Which you have already somewhat experienced inside of FL.

After that the peoples on these sites, it appears, are more than eager to help after you stub your foot and bonk your head. THANK YOU VERY MUCH!

Hope this helps alittle.
dana

 

[SPINSTERWUN]

You don't really expect someone to buy that much gear, and pay full retail for everything.

Do you?

... of course they wouldn't pay full retail, if they were buying that much equipment, M.Brane.

I was just trying to emphasize my position and point of view.

spin

 

[rguagenti]

Editor:

I am in the same boat as you. Mid 40ish, used to gig around and write some then life happened. My kids are self sufficient now and I have some time to re pursue my passion. and I'm also a cheapskate(or is it frugal?)!!

I purchased a good refurbed computer - look on-line there are tons of sites selling good refurbished computers. But you have a computer already so this isn't an issue. Typical onboard "consumer" soundcard and computer speakers good enough for now Thank You.

I purchased a bare bones home recording software package for $50 at Comp USA(I did MC2003, but any one will do).

Bought some cables and a mike at Guitar Center(always running specials).

Dusted off my old acoustic(Ovation sorry to say)

I plugged in and am having a blast. We will never be Lennon or McCartney, but this is my therapy and I am having fun.

If, once you are into it you want to blow a wad, be my guest, but this is a good "on the cheap" set up to get started.

You may want to spend some time lurking in some of these forums to get a feel for what you are getting into and the gear that is available. There is a lot of info out there(great info on this BBS-by far the best forum I've found). If you simply type "home recording" into your web browser you will see tons of info, read it print it, digest it, it's good $#!+.

Also, buy "Home Recording for Dummies" it's a good reference point.


Rock On!!!

 

[Editor]

Editor:

I am in the same boat as you. Mid 40ish, used to gig around and write some then life happened. My kids are self sufficient now and I have some time to re pursue my passion. and I'm also a cheapskate(or is it frugal?)!!

Finally! A compadre' Yes...same boat. I don't know about us being 'cheapskates' though. In my experimental days, I used to turn stereo reel-to-reel machines into sound-on-sound recorders, mono phonograph players into stereo ... whatever was at hand and fun to do. Playing around like that was good enough for Les Paul

Sure, I could have just bought all that gear too but I think I learned a lot from the experience. I've always lived by the credo that better tools don't necessarily make better workmen ;-)

Typical onboard "consumer" soundcard and computer speakers good enough for now Thank You.

Yes, exactly. I'm looking to do some 'amateur' recordings--I have no intention of competing with the pros. As I said, I know a little bit about a lot of things when it comes to home recording but not enough about the newer things yet.

MIDI, for example, sounds like fun but not for guitar players as far as I can tell. Can MIDI sounds be triggered by a guitar line recorded in Cubase or Sonar? I know it sounds like a dumb question but that's what places like this forum are for isn't it?

Dusted off my old acoustic(Ovation sorry to say).

Sorry? Isn't that The Guitar You Can Stand On? Made out of Kevlar? What's wrong with that? I've played places where bullet-proof guitars came in handy ;-)

I plugged in and am having a blast. We will never be Lennon or McCartney, but this is my therapy and I am having fun.

There you go

You may want to spend some time lurking in some of these forums...
... If you simply type "home recording" into your web browser you will see tons of info....

That's how I found this place

Rock On!!!

Will do! Thanks for the info

 

[drstawl]

>MIDI, for example, sounds like fun but not for guitar players as far as I can tell. Can >MIDI sounds be triggered by a guitar line recorded in Cubase or Sonar? I know it >sounds like a dumb question but that's what places like this forum are for isn't it?

Not a dumb question at all. It can be done but it requires a real-time translator between the guitar output and the MIDI input.
The device has to figure out the attack/decay/sustain/release characteristics of each "pluck" event, determine the frequency of the note (up to 6 at once) and translate all of this into MIDI instructions as you play. Pretty expensive technology but a blast to use!