I'm confused about Direct Outs...

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Kasey

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So I record using a mixer and an ADAT. ADAT's of course have no input level control or anything to that effect. My mixer doesnt have direct outs so I just turn the preamp gain hot without clipping, then adjust the channel and stereo out so the output volume level doesnt cause the signal to clip on the ADAT.

If I got a mixer with direct outs, that means the signal doesnt go through anything except the preamp, right? So in my situation wouldnt that mean that the output level and preamp gain level would have to be the same? So for example it could be a perfect gain level on the preamp but clipping on the ADAT? I am confused. please help. would direct outs not help me in this situation?

thanks.
 
what type of mixer do you have? level setting basics: all faders at unity gain. Turn up gain until peaks reach zero. If your recording device and console meters are calibrated correctly each will be at optimum level. As far as mackies go I believe the direct outs are post fader. If i recall correctly you cannot calibrate ADAT meters. If this is the case your best option assuming your mixer (like most budget mixers) functions like a mackie leave your channel fader at unity gain and turn up the pre until the hottest peaks reach just below zero on the ADAT. You may have to use the +4 or -10 jacks on your ADAT depending on your consoles output level at unity. You might want to leave some room for stray, unexpected peaks and hit it a little lower, like -10 but it's a definite compromise with adat audio quality. I have my console calibrated so channel ouputs read 0 and my tape deck reads +6, my tape deck is biased and calibrated for this level.
 
i have a behringer ub2442fx which has direct outs. i dont use it much though. the direct outs are after gain adjustments,eq, and level adjustments. i'm not sure if it reflects the effects though...
 
Most direct outputs are post fader.

The optimum gain for a channel is not just below clipping. You should set the level by hitting the pfl on tha channel, setting the input gain so the meters read 0db. If the clip light is coming on, you are running the preamps 10 or 15db too hot.
 
I didn't say the optimum gain for the a channel is zero, I told him to hit the ADATs below zero since we know we can't hit ADAT's at zero due to digital clipping, i.e. 0dbfs. I told him to set the channel so its level is unity gain (0) but I did forget the bit about the pfl. Hit your PFL or Solo button when setting your levels on the channel. I often forget the fine points because I really don't give a shit and I do this day in and out so it's automatic and not a thought process anymore. Sweetnubs: the axis of evil.
 
But i thought the concept of direct outs was that the signal was kept somewhat more 'pure' by not going through the rest of the signal chain, such as EQ and such. I have a yamaha Mg16/4... i'm looking at getting a soundcraft or allen & heath.
 
Kasey said:
But i thought the concept of direct outs was that the signal was kept somewhat more 'pure' by not going through the rest of the signal chain, such as EQ and such. I have a yamaha Mg16/4... i'm looking at getting a soundcraft or allen & heath.
Click to expand...
It's primary purpose is sending individual tracks to a recorder without using group, aux, monitor, or master outs. Many nicer boards will let you configure where you pull your direct out (pre/post fader, eq, etc,)

Say your tracking a live band in studio... you want to provide them with a mix that's reflects the sound they're looking for...that they're comfortable playing with... but these levels wouldn't be optimal for tracking to the recorder (instruments softer in the mix would be recorded at less then optimal gain)... direct outs (pre-fader) will let you set up optimal levels to your recorder independent of what you do on the control surface
 
sweetnubs said:
I didn't say the optimum gain for the a channel is zero, I told him to hit the ADATs below zero since we know we can't hit ADAT's at zero due to digital clipping, i.e. 0dbfs. I told him to set the channel so its level is unity gain (0) but I did forget the bit about the pfl. Hit your PFL or Solo button when setting your levels on the channel. I often forget the fine points because I really don't give a shit and I do this day in and out so it's automatic and not a thought process anymore. Sweetnubs: the axis of evil.
Click to expand...
I was trying to add to what you were saying, I wasn't correcting you.
 
Kasey said:
But i thought the concept of direct outs was that the signal was kept somewhat more 'pure' by not going through the rest of the signal chain, such as EQ and such. I have a yamaha Mg16/4... i'm looking at getting a soundcraft or allen & heath.
Click to expand...

What you want is the SEND portion of an insert, which is not bothered by fader level, although you'll have to experiment to determine if your insert SEND is pre-eq or not....

Mofo is right, the direct out is intended for sending a sound to tape...
 
sweetnubs said:
I often forget the fine points because I really don't give a shit
Click to expand...

This is the part we would like to forget....
 
Many boards and consoles in use today are hybrids that are designed for FOH and Studio applications. Indeed, most of the boards discussed here fit into this catagory. A FOH application usually requires extensive use of the mixer master buss, aux S/R, monitor sends, etc. The live guy needs these tools to do his job.

The same board in the studio is usually ultilized in a different way. The board becomes sixteen discreet channel strips routed to anywhere you want. By bypassing the master buss and aux route you keep your channel signal clean as it never enters the summing circuits. There is no bleed and channel intregity is maintained. This is the main use of direct outs. Post/Pre fader is usually there to enhance the "routing" options. As to signal unity and db levels treat your channel direct out as you would any stand alone channel strip or preamp out.

I am a avid home recordist and maintain a professional studio to compliment my production business. I am also very "seasoned" in age. The fact that a "mixer" or "console" is just a bunch of discreet channel strips "wired" together and placed in a "attractive" package seems to go unnoticed and misunderstood today. There are many posts on this board about "gold chains", boutique pre's and the magical five hundred dollar "bang for the buck" channel strips. A good board will give you 4/8/12/16/24/32 of quality preamps, hardware EQ and signal monitoring. If you use the direct outs......

You seem to be very aware of what you want and the many variables it may take to get there. The Allen Heath or a good Soundcraft board is a good choice. Sorry for the long post about boards but a response to a direct out question must be presented in context. Good luck and have fun!

Chip Evans
 
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