i want this mix to sound "wider"

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Bisson820

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any ideas fellas?

i've heard of things like wideners and spreaders and stuff like that, but im worried about sacrificing audio quality.

any of you know how i can achieve this? and am i right about those "wideners" and "spreaders"?

Cheers,

Tyler

I Love You Aug 28th by Seconds To September on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

(not mixed to perfection yet) (and the end of the song isnt fully tracked yet)

PS... my main concern for the spread right now is for the verses.

ENJOY!!!!
 
by the way, i have the OH's panned left and right... i have the bass sitting right int he middle since its the driving force of the song... i have the rhythm guitar slightly panned left... i have the lead riff completely panned right... and harmony to the lead riff completely panned left

kick and snare in the center and the toms panned respectively.
 
It really depends on how you use them. Try placing a stereo enhancer of an FX channel and send to it from when effect is wanted. I have had some good results with this.
 
I thought the guitars were nice and wide and in general well balanced. If there harmony vocals that will be tracked later that will give you an opportunity to widen further.

The only thing about the mix that struck me as overly narrow are the overheads. You say you have them panned, but not by how much. Can you move them any further? Also were they tracked X/Y? If so you might try ORTF and see if that helps.
 
MJB - Logic Pro 9

Jimmy - i'll give it a look-see

Triple - there will be a group vocal that doubles the start of the lead guitar riff and fad, also i did notice that the OH's werent panned as far as i had originally thought... i must have fiddled and not re-corrected.

They were tracked Recorder-man style.... ORTF?
 
If you have a stereo delay plugin, you can apply a very short stereo delay separately to each channel (left and right) of the overheads. Be careful not to mix the delay signal too wet and test out the mix by playing it back in mono. If it's not very subtle, you'll end up with a very chorus-y sound.

EDITED because I originally said "reverb" plugin - I meant delay.
 
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I'm not getting the "how to make it wider" question...it shouldn't require any special trick.

The stereo field is basically a hard Left/Right field. If stuff sounds mono-ish...just pan it & fan it out.
There's no need to apply any "stereo-izers" or special processing to widen it.
Reverb and delays help with depth...but you don't want to use them as a stereo "fix" if the mix doesn't call for them.
Also...don't hit everything with reverb. A mix of dry elements panned accordingly and some "wet" elements will work better at creating depth and width.

I'm wondering how far apart your speakers sit and what type they are...? If too close to each other, your mix will always sound mono-ish...same thing if you sit way back from them.
 
Miro, im not asking for any TRICK of how to make it wider... fact is i would like to make it sound wider and i am seeing what people might have for ideas for me to do this.


did you listen to the song? its not "wet" by any means and there isnt a lot of delay or reverb.. your tip of "if it sounds mono then pan it"... wtf dude? listen tot he song, i've obviously done that.

its not an issue of my monitors, since i use monitors and double check with headphones, other computers, speakers... you name it....

its not a problem of sounding mono.. i want different parts to sound farther left or right, and would like to know if anyone knows how to get that.

listen to some kings of leon... thats kinda what i mean.
 
Bisson820 said:
...i want different parts to sound farther left or right, and would like to know if anyone knows how to get that.
Click to expand...

I'm not trying to sound flippant...but man....just turn the pan knobs where you want the parts to go. :D
That's why I say that I didn't get the question...and thought you were looking for something else, like a stereo processing trick.

AFA the reverb stuff...I was replying to the post above my previous one, though it also applies to what you are asking above. You can pan...but also adding some reverb or delay, can add depth.
 
the guitars are panned all the way left and right, respectively... and there is a decent amount of delay on the lead riffs, to a poitn wher ei dont want any more delay.

still wanting a wider sound

i know there's gotta be a way its done.. since people do it.
 
Did you use a 2-mic ONLY setup for the recorderman technique? It sounds like you've got reinforcing mics on the snare and kick, and that those are making up the majority of your drum sound. Your crash is going right down the center, too.

If this is the case, use your automation to bring the recorderman mics UP and the reinforcements (center) mics DOWN during the verses, and then reverse this trend for the choruses when you need the extra punch. My experiences with the recorderman method have ranged from balanced (very natural) to wide (think Keith Moon) depending on the mics and the room.

Also, I edited a typo on my original post. In that post I was talking just about the overheads, by the way - not the whole mix.
 
i may have said my technique wrong?... my drum mic set up is 2 on snare top/bottom... 2 on kick, 1 on each tom (4 toms) and 2 OH

OH __Drum Kit __OH

like that.. if that makes sense haha, and i believe i had said that i did have to fix the panning since i uploaded the song for the OH's only..

but thats not exactly what im talking about, im not so sure that that made the end result what i was looking for with this whole width thing... but we'll see!
 
I think people are focusing on the drums because other than the bass--which is supposed to be in the middle--they are the only thing that isn't "wide". A good mastering job will have the potential to sound "wider", so you can't necessarily compare the absolute width of your mix to that of a commercial release. However, you also can't "fix it in the master", so you have to be as close as possible.

I think the whole mix will sound wider with a little more room sound on that kit. I'd bring those OHs up and pull back on that whole slew of mics running right down the middle. You'll lose punch, but it's a game of balance. You could try a few other things, too, like a stereo delay/reverb on ONE snare track. Listen to this: Tom Petty - A Face In The Crowd - YouTube It's not really your style, but that's a mono drum kit with a stereo reverb on the snare. It gives the whole mix a nice spread and makes the rhythm of the track feel a lot wider IMHO.

In short, you want to draw attention away from center. That doesn't mean you have to move tracks or the balance away from center. Impression is everything in using a stereo field.
 
hold your tongue sir! tom petty is very my style ;)... one of my favorites.

but i hear what your saying to a degree..

however the only drum mics i have in the center, are the kick and snare, the toms are panned respectively and the OH's are panned aswell.

the ONLY intstruments taht are dead in the center are the kick, snare and bass
 
IMO...the only way you are going to increase the L/R width beyond what you can do with the pan knob...would require either some M/S stereo manipulation process...
...or, you would need to record the guitars using a stereo mic technique, and then place-n-record the guitar "behind" the L/R 180 degree line of the stereo image....
...or mix in surround.

That said...your guitars sound rather diffused (maybe too much delay)...which would make it harder to define specific/extreme L/R positions.
 
Bisson820 said:
however the only drum mics i have in the center, are the kick and snare, the toms are panned respectively and the OH's are panned aswell.

the ONLY intstruments taht are dead in the center are the kick, snare and bass
Click to expand...

I understand that. When I said "impression is everything", what I was getting at is that although the kick and snare are in the center, if you're standing there the room reflections will not be in the center. They will be all around you. If you want to widen the overall sound of something that has to sit in the middle, you have to affect the "impression" of width - it's all you've got. That's why I say to bring up those OHs or to use a stereo effect on something like a snare. The high frequencies will spread nicely as picked up by the room mics or simulated by an effect. This is what will widen your sound, not panning, since you can't pan a mono signal in two directions without it still sounding like mono.
 
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