I wanna pre: SP or Focusrite?(£200)

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noisedude

noisedude

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mine is a gradually expanding home setup, I currently have VST 5, a delta 44, some sennheiser e845s (for live mostly), a C1000 and a behringer UB1204. the question over my need to buy some mics will be posed in a seperate thread!! i tend to be recording one or two things at once so i don't need loads of gear just enough to get things down well singly.

pre-amps then - i've heard good things about the SP VTB-1 and the guy in my music shop reckons the Focusrite Trakmaster is the business for about 80 quid more. so tell me. what do i want and how much do i want to spend on it?
 
They're both pretty much total shite... save your money and get some better kit when you can afford it. Much better to buy good tools once than to buy a bunch of mediocre to piss poor tools several times during your career.

There is "cheap", there is "inexpensive"... try not to confuse the two.
 
ok....but actually, being realistic, there's no way i can justify huge amounts of money on equipment like that because i have no plans to go into business and if i was to ever make a break in the music industry i'd not be working my stuff in my spare bedroom and basement still...

it's fair to say these pres won't stand up in comparison to expensive stuff, but that's not the point or my question.

people make recordings all the time on pres of this price range, and the recordings they make are not poor. in fact they're very good.

don't mistake 'newbie' for 'knows nothing' - if you want to be helpful suggest something further up the range i should aspire to getting...don't flame me cos you're bored or unhappy with your life.
 
Either he's unhappy with his life....or he sells mostly high end preamps on his site.

But the facts are right though you will regret getting a pre that is to noisy to use...or that isnt flattering to the mic. There are a few pres that are in that price range that are useable. like the M-audio stuff.
 
ok so given then that the choice is not high-end stuff or low-end stuff, and that i'm currently getting a couple of studio projects mics to give a whirl, am i better spending some money on a single channel such as the SP, M-audio or focusrite, or sticking with the things in my behr mixer? if you're saying they really aren't that useful then i can stick with what i have. i appreciate the benefits of pres, especially expensive ones, but i can't audition these before buying cos no-one round me stocks all three so i can't compare!
 
noisedude said:
ok....but actually, being realistic, there's no way i can justify huge amounts of money on equipment like that because i have no plans to go into business and if i was to ever make a break in the music industry i'd not be working my stuff in my spare bedroom and basement still...

it's fair to say these pres won't stand up in comparison to expensive stuff, but that's not the point or my question.

people make recordings all the time on pres of this price range, and the recordings they make are not poor. in fact they're very good.

don't mistake 'newbie' for 'knows nothing' - if you want to be helpful suggest something further up the range i should aspire to getting...don't flame me cos you're bored or unhappy with your life.
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I just picked up a Focusrite Voicemaster Pro too toy around with. I haven’t had much time to play with it yet but so far, it's not bad (certainly usable). I’m not exactly sure but, I think that most, if not all, of the platinum series stuff use the same pre amp so I would expect them to “sound” close.

Are there “better” pre amps out there??? You bet but at the price point of the platinum series (including the RNP, all FMR products get high ratings on this forum) they are all about the same quality.

Bottom line is no pre amp is the silver bullet for all situations. So if this is the best you can afford, go listen to one, and if YOU like it then buy it. You can always save for a higher-end pre (like you will never buy another piece of gear for your studio). :rolleyes:
 
It depends on what you need it to do.


If all you need is something to get you up to line level, then a cheaper, no-frills deal like the M-audio DMP-3 is fine. As is the Rane MS-1B . . . the VTB1, etc. etc.

The Focusrite might be something you could really use if you need the extra bells & whistles; compression, EQ, etc.

If by some crazy chance you were looking to do this to make a living at some point, then you might want to give someone like Fletcher a call and look at some of the higher end stuff. Although this doesn't appear to be one of your goals, and you and Fletcher don't seem to hit it off so well, anyway. :D
 
i would like decent (yes, relatively) compression so might as well get the SP and put the money left over towards a dedicated box. thanks for the input.

my problem with fletcher is that i said quite clearly my setup and i don't see how he can think i should sell my car for a john hardy or summat when my mics are so limited and i'm using a £150 sound card! it just seems stupid to say products many use and are happy with are "pretty much total shite". i'll save and do without til i can afford something worth having but if i can have a couple of decent mics and maybe buy some groceries instead of blowing it all on one thing then i will!!!

fletch - when i'm loaded i promise i'll buy whatever gear you say. til then ...
 
you gotta remember....fletcher works (and sells) day in and day out with really nice, high-end gear. if i had the opportunity to use great rivers, neves, drawmers, etc., on a daily basis, something like the VTB-1 would indeed be shit. absolutely. sure he has some issues with people "skillz" ;-P, but we love him anyway (or maybe it's in spite of that? or because of that? i dunno). his experience is invaluable and whenever i see his name pop up in a thread, i make sure to read it--chances are i'll either learn something or get a good laugh....usually both. :D

now, looking at it from the other end of the spectrum.....yes, you'll notice a difference moving from the behri to either a DMP3 or VTB-1. they're quieter, better constructed and will provide more (better?) clean gain and chances are their cumulative effects on tracks over the course of an entire mix are less likely to be noticed than the behri.

i own a VTB-1 and a mackie 24*4, and the VTB-1 is better across the board, hands down. of course, the VTB-1 was $130/channel versus the $40/channel the mackie generally goes for used on ebay. i run the VTB-1 into an RNC (usually with a Studio Projects B1 or an EV RE38) and it gives me a usable sound. is it great? no. will it rival a U87->Great River 2NV->Distressor? no. do i expect it to? no. there's no way a $300 signal chain can rival a $4500 one, nor should anyone expect one to. do i aspire one day to have that U87->2NV->Distressor as an option? you bet.

just gotta make do til that day....


wade

PS--i DO subscribe to the concept of "buy good, buy once...buy crap, buy twice" mindset. i buy the best stuff i can possibly afford, especially taking trackrecords and "proven winners" into account. there are certain things and brands i look for and certain ones i avoid, and we all have our favorites and predjudices. but in that, there's always a limit as to how far one can go....especially if they're "just" home recordists. my aim is to have stuff that 15 years from now when i've got MUCH better gear, that i'll still have a use for.
 
I wouldnt be surprised if you will be happy with a good 2 channel like the RNP or the Toft pre that fletcher liked both are for a few hundred more on his site.
 
well maybe it'll teach me for not knowing people's backgrounds and if i'd known fletcher was peddling that stuff then i wouldn't have got so mad! i live and learn.

i did a whole album last year that went on release in my area, it was all recorded on a C1000 through a roland CPM300 powered mixer which has no pre-amps to speak of and two-band EQ. the behr was a step up from there, esp when i compared the pres in it to a number of more expensive larger desks such as spirits and yamahas. an SP B-1 mic and a VTB1 pre will propel me fast into the realm of 'gear geek' amongst my friends and band members. of course i aspire to expensive gear. once i've made do with cheap stuff i'll appreciate the difference more too :)
 
The Trakmaster is a great box for the money, in my honest opinion, and the compressor section is quite subtle on vocals and for guitar. I have used other compressors besides this one, but at the price (and with the optional digital card) it is a very good box - hard to pull a lousy sound from. There isn't a great variety of sounds, but it is a very quiet and versatile piece of gear.
 
Yeah, I'd go with the above post, I own a trackmaster and have a similar set up to yourself. I really like the trackmaster, I know there's more expensive stuff out there but it was the best i could afford in the price range. It works really well on vocals and also i use it for direct input on guitar and bass and sometimes sick my Roland xp10 though it. It's easy to use has loads of features and is a great all one unit for the money - I'd recommend it.

Ps. Sounds like Fletcher has some very expensive pre amps at his fingertips and uses them to compensate for his tiny penis !
 
S.C.U.D said:
Ps. Sounds like Fletcher has some very expensive pre amps at his fingertips and uses them to compensate for his tiny penis !
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Jeez, I didn't know that. Actually, I'd rather have Fletcher's pre's and knowledge than a large penis. I can always add an extra 3 inches to my penis by any of the hundreds of spammers that have contacted me, but knowledge is a little harder (no pun intended) to come by (no pun intended again).
 
i've now read some cracking reviews for the SP one but it doesn't have a compressor. i wonder how much an entry-level compressor that's no worse than the focusrite one would be.
 
did someone say "cheap compressor"?

ok, here's one where cheap versus inexpensive really plays out.

the alesis 3630. $100. cheap......also complete crap.

the FMR RNC 1773. $175 new. *inexpensive*.....kicks serious ass.


i love my RNC. it handles everything i throw at it with aplomb, except for maybe bass. i wish i had 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 (you get the picture) of em.


i really happen to love the RE38->VTB1->RNC combination on vocals.


wade
 
If you want a nice, clean pre that's VERY quiet, the Studio Projects VTB1 will do very nicely. Others like the M-Audio DMP3 more, but it costs a little more too (though it's 2-channels).
 
noisedude said:
i've now read some cracking reviews for the SP one but it doesn't have a compressor. i wonder how much an entry-level compressor that's no worse than the focusrite one would be.
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I should have added in the prior post that I have the FMR-Audio RNC. Very nice. Let me go out on a limb here. $1,000 preamps should damn well sound better than $125. ones. They should be made better too; be more versatile under a variety of conditions using a variety of mics. Doing an a/b comparison one should likely hear a difference. But is one going to always be judged "better" than the other? I doubt that would be the case. It's amazing that with all the processed vocals playing on the radio, we get all worked up over what pre is "shite". Certainly a pre that adds significant distortion or noise isn't something we should buy, but there are some mighty inexpensive models out there offering very low distortion and very high s/n ratio. When Studio Projects says their VTB1 has a S/N of 129db (or is it 119db?), believe them. These are VERY QUIET preamps.

What I'm saying is, if you buy a VTB1 or a DMP3, and you make a great song, I very much doubt if someone is going to say, "Man, that's a great song, but your preamp really ruined it..." Get a CD of the mic/pre tests done by Studio Projects using various pieces of gear. Yes, you can hear a difference, but the difference is very subtle and VERY subjective. When put into the larger mix I think your talent, performance and producing skills are what will make the real difference.
 
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