I need help!

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tedluk

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I think I started a thread like this once before and no one answered, but I'll try again.

I'm a keyboardist and I've been playing music nearly all my life. Years ago when I was in high school I wrote a lot of progressive rock and had a band and all that. I left it for a long time. Played a little here and there. I got into jazz and learned how to improvise ala Keith Jarrett (not as well, unfortunately :) ).

Here I am now, I have the equipment, I have tons of ideas, I can sit down and play for hours, but I can't seem to get anything done. I don't even know how to explain it. I have been struggling with this for a very long time and it's driving me crazy.

One thing I know helped me all those years ago was having a collaborator. It seemed to keep me focused. Also, I enjoy working on other peoples project's and adding my input to them.

What I am asking is first, how do any of you go about finding someone to work with? And, second, is there anyone in my area (the Inland Empire area of southern California) who is in the same boat or is interested in either recording their stuff or helping me with mine (or both).

I grew up in the '70s on prog rock and graduated into jazz and some alternative. My tastes are eclectic. I try to respect all forms, but that doesn't mean I want to play them.

There really isn't a forum for this. This seemed like the best fit though.

Thanks!

Ted
 
Ted - how do you feel about on line collaboration? If it gives you a focus to get something under your belt it would be worth while for that alone.

Let me know

Garry
 
Yep, colaborate as Gary suggests on line or sending each other CDs or whatever.

But why not put a little band together. There's nothing to beat meeting up with a few other musicians and working togather on some music. You can record the group sessions then take away the recording and work on it on your own.

Or, ask for a lyricist and offer to put some music to their words with a some guidance from them about the style of music and mood, etc.

Good luck with it.
 
It seems to me that often times, recording and collaborating causes us to focus beyond what we will do on our own (musical masturbation, heehee). I think you're totally on the right track. If you can force yourself to record just one song, you've made progress and have something finished to share with others. If you have only parts and can't get beyond that, then that collaboration is going to give you a chance to finish off/piece together ideas/come up with new parts. Good luck.
 
Thanks for the replies!

Gary- I've never done anything online. It might be interesting though. Do you have anything you need eclectic keys on?

glynb- I don't really know if a band thing is where I want to go right now. I don't have the time to commit to it nor the facilities to do it at my place. I don't know, it might be something I'd look at in the future. But I agree with you. I really want to work with someone directly.

I guess what I'm hoping for is to find someone who knows the technology better than I do and wants to help collaborate on music with me, in return they would get access to a pretty well equipped studio.

Songwriter333- See, this is my problem. It ALL seems like musical masturbation to me! (Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking masturbation- After all, as Woody Allen once said, "It's sex with someone I love!") Somehow, as I got more proficient at free improvisation, it just seemed meaningless to actually save the stuff. At least I think that's what happened. All I know is that where I once spent hours working on complicated arrangements with lots of parts, now it all seems pointless and I just noodle around for hours on end. The stupid thing is that I know there are lots of things that have potential in there. I just don't seem to be willing to do the work. And that would be fine, I suppose. But I feel like I'm letting myself down and regret that I'm not doing more.

I think a collaborator would force me to become more directed in what I'm doing. Having someone else involved would put some pressure on me to actually accomplish something.

How would you go about finding someone?

Ted
 
Ted - depends how eclectic! I may be too mainstream for you.

www.nowhereradio.com/vella/singles

There's lots of other stuff but the 1st and 2nd songs will give you an idea. As I say, probably too mainstream, but PM me if you want to discuss it.

Otherwise best of luck - there are plenty of ways of collaborating on line. It's worth hanging out in the mixing clinic, and getting in touch with anybody doing stuff you think you could sit with. A fair bit of collab goes on around this bbs.

All the best

Garry
 
Garry- (sorry I mispelled your name before)

I'll take a listen tomorrow. I'm at work right now (theoretically at least).

I don't have a problem with mainstream. For my own stuff I like to get out there, but I've played on other people's songs before.

If I think I can add something, how do you go about it? My home studio is set up with SONAR and an AW2816. I've got hardware and software synths so we have plenty of options. Let me know.

Ted
 
Well, we are only 8,000 miles apart so I don't see a problem :)

I think you'd do it with swapping MP3's to work parts out; .wav files run at 10MB a minute so parts for final mixes might demand FedEx'd CD's, but that's not hugely expensive.

Anyway, see what you think after a listen.

G
 
Funny quote tedluk, I like it. Sounds like the collaboration is what will help, and it even sounds like maybe lyric (message) can help with musical ramblings.
 
Garry Sharp said:
Well, we are only 8,000 miles apart so I don't see a problem :)

I think you'd do it with swapping MP3's to work parts out; .wav files run at 10MB a minute so parts for final mixes might demand FedEx'd CD's, but that's not hugely expensive.

Anyway, see what you think after a listen.

G
Click to expand...

Well, I've got broadband so the transfers probably aren't a problem on my end.

I'll get back to you. :)

Songwirter333- Yeah, I've always liked that quote too! Woody said some very funny things back when he was a stand-up. (Yes, he started as a stand-up back in the '60s.)

Ted
 
"All I know is that where I once spent hours working on complicated arrangements with lots of parts, now it all seems pointless and I just noodle around for hours on end. The stupid thing is that I know there are lots of things that have potential in there. I just don't seem to be willing to do the work. And that would be fine, I suppose. But I feel like I'm letting myself down and regret that I'm not doing more."

If you have no purpose to your noodling around then, yes, it IS pointless! I mean it's ok to do this to learn how to use the equipment, or learn your instrument, practice recording techniques,etc, but ultimately there has to be some purpose to what you're recording IMO for it to be satisfying.

There's no satisfaction in starting jobs that are never finished, the satisfaction usualy comes on completion IMO, in fact it's depressing if there are lots of started an incomplete/abandoned tasks hanging around.

Yes, definitely collaborate if you don't have time to commit to a band. Set yourself a goal to write, or co-write a song, to record the parts and finish it and let friends hear it, and set a time to aim for. That will give you a focus.

Good luck and come back to us with yours and gary's finished effort!
 
common threads

Ted,

Much of what you wrote parallels myself, in some ways. Interesting.

Somebody once said they thought my music was like Keith Jarret, which I took offense at when I heard, but another friend told me it was meant as a compliment. <grin>

Anyways, I have sought musical collaboration for many years without success. It's just like trying to find (or nurture) friendships - takes much effort and you're blessed if after 30 years you have one.

I, too, thrive(d) on 70's progressive Album Oriented Rock (AOR), and if I did not know better, depression would easily get ahold of me at the loss of excellence and what the world has since become. As all true artists/musicians know, your art (medium) needs to reflect your message (philosophy).

Collaboration starts there... you work with others who are like-minded, not exact replicas, certainly, but who share the same revelation of truth, followed by likes and disklikes of subjective and not-so-subjective things.

Drop me a word and I'll be sure to reply.

Todd
 
Todd-

Not sure why you would consider being compared to Jarrett an insult. He might just be the finest piano player out there from a technical standpoint. I can't think of much of anything that's beyond him and his oeuvre covers everything from classical to jazz. He might not be the easiest person, but there's no disputing his ability.

In a way, the free improvisation route is a trap. If you are capable of creating music spontaneously- and I don't mean just riffing over the same chord progression endlessly but creating themes and motifs and developing them, building, creating a climax and then a resolution- then, for me at least, you come to a point where it seems meaningless to go to the effort of actually committing it all to some more permanent form.

This is an idea I have a hard time communicating. The closest parallel I can think of is a scene from the movie "Annie Hall" where, as a young boy, they show Woody's character, Alvie. His mother is distraught because he won't do any of his schoolwork his reasoning being that "the universe is expanding". I think they take him to the rabbi (I might get the details wrong here, it's been a while, but the point is the same) and Alvie tries to explain to him that since the universe is expanding, eventually it will fall apart and everything will be gone, so what's the point? And, on certain levels, it's a valid question. Of course, there is no really good response to his quandry. We do the best we can, but ultimately, it's probably all pointless.

OK, how's that for an uplifting thought for your Sunday morning? LMAO!

Gee, it just occured to me that this thread has two Woody Allen references. It's only a coincidence. I certainly don't think of him that often IRL. Really, I don't!!

Honestly, I'm not a depressed person. Actually, I'm pretty upbeat most of the time, but musically, I just seem to have lost motivation and I've looked for it everywhere. (I even checked way back in the corner behind my desk where everything else seems to wind up!)

Todd, I'm going to send you a private message as your response certainly has me intrigued.

Ted
 
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Reason

Life does have meaning. Eventually we'll talk (and even play) music, but that comes later.

First, I don't dispute Jarret's ability in some things. Every so often he actually has something I really like. But not often enough. And where his technicianship is among the elite, his compositional abilities shine only once in a blue moon, and then he adds his moaning and groaning atop of his playing (for added effect?), and you now have a little sense of my thoughts on Keith.

The Quandry, ..... is only a quandry if done under the sun. But if done unto the Son "the quandry" dissipates immediately.

Romans 8:20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not of its own will, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope
Romans 8:21 that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

So, life is vain only if God is not your life. Pretty straight forward.

Lastly, I have a few friends that obtained music degrees back in the 80's and one of them told me something pretty interesting. He said, "theoretically, the greatest music experience a listener (audience) can have is one in which the 3 major elements of the experience are all done by their respective bests. The greatest composer (is usually not the greatest technician), the greatest technician (usually not a great composer, i.e. Franz Liszt), and the greatest conductor. All their respective bests give the listener a most wonderful musical experience. The greatest conductor conducting the greatest composition with the greatest technicians."

I thought that very educational when my friend shared that with me. Still, though, not an absolute. How so? I'll tell you later.

But Ted, there is far more ahead for your life, talent, pains, and experiences.
 
A lot of people have a problem with the moaning, but I just have learned to accept it as part of what is Jarrett. Having spent a lot of time trying to learn how to improvise freely, I understand that though it seems an affectation, there can be "tricks" you use to either put yourself into a place where the ideas can flow freely or to help excite the audience. Sometimes I think he's just truly moved by what he's playing and it just comes out spontaneously. I found it off-putting at first, then a little comical, now I just see it as part of the performance.

I had the pleasure of seeing him perform twice, years ago, and it was quite an experience. A solo concert of free improvisation has to be one of the most daunting and challenging tasks a performer can attempt. There is no safety net. It's you and a piano and nothing else. You'd better be able to come up with something. So, whatever means he might have to emply to engage himself or the audience I'll allow because he delivers the goods.

I'll agree that I don't like everything he does. Some of the quartet work is beyond me. Some of his work done in the 70's is hard to listen to. It really sounds as if all of them are free improvising at the same time. I've tried that and it sounded like crap when I did it as well. Though I'm pretty sure their crap sounded more nuanced and was performed with a higher level of expertise than mine.

OTOH, the albums of standards are amazing. The Koln Concert and the Bremen/Lausanne concerts are incredible. Though I've not heard it, his recordings of the Mozart Sonatas are supposed to be among the most technically perfect ever performed. I've never really considered him a composer, per se, so I don't take away points for his lack of skill in that arena.

Taking your last point regarding the ultimate audience experience, musically speaking- I think the problem with his theory is that all of the items in question are highly subjective. Just as I would find being compared to Jarrett among the highest compliments one could pay me, you considered it an insult. Defining the "best" of anything in the arts is an impossibility. Still there can be no doubt that a great composition, performed by a top orchestra, in a great hall with a brilliant conductor is certainly more likely to result in a transcendent experience than the local high school band, with a student conductor, in their multi-purpose room, playing TV themes of the 80's. But, I've sat through tedious performances and been bored while those around me leapt to their feet to give a standing ovation and, conversely, been moved to tears while others were non-plussed. There are so many factors that affect how one reacts.

Of course, this is an age-old struggle for composers and performers. Who hasn't been overwhelmed with self-doubt about the quality of one's own material?

Saving your religious admonitions for last-
This is always a difficult area to discuss. Suffice to say, that I don't share your viewpoint. Though I've engaged in many a theological debate over the years, I've yet to see one result in any kind of philosophical shift of any of the participants. So, while sometimes interesting, and occasionaly challenging, these discussions are largely pointless and I've come to avoid them now as they often only serve to distance people.

I will say that my beliefs are, I feel, well considered and have not been reached without a great deal of thought and, if I may say, soul searching.

Ted
 
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