I need advice from the big boys...balanced cables

  • Thread starter Thread starter LemonTree
  • Start date Start date
LemonTree

LemonTree

Suck 'em and see!
Don't flame me for cross posting, I had this in the newbies section but it got burried.

I have a delta 1010 soundcard with balanced ins n outs. My mixer has balanced tape returns on XLR sockets. I have the tape returns conected with an 8 way xlr to balanced jack loom. Here's my problem.....

I want to add another 8 outputs but my budget won't stretch as far as another Delta 1010. I was going to buy at delta 410, 2 ins n 8 outs but the conectors are unbalanced RCA sockets.

could I get a loom somewhere that's male xlr to rca? and would this work, or do the signals have to be balanced because my tape returns are?

I know the idea of balanced cable it to eliminate hum/noise from the signal but this wouldn't be a very big cable run...2 meters would do it.

Is it advisable? will I notice a lot of quality loss? help please.

Alec
 
I wouldn't - I'd save up for the balanced box.....

There is another consideration you may have missed -- the unit with the RCA connectors is not only unbalanced, but it's very likely that it also operates at the -10dBV gain structure. This can be an issue if you intend to interface it with gear operating at +4dBu.......
 
that hadn't even crossed my mind Bruce. Thanks, I'll look into that.

Alec.
 
I checked the specs out....


Delta 410 Specifications

4x10 24-bit/96khz full-duplex recording interface.
PCI card with break-out cable to gold-plated RCA jacks.
***8 Analog Outs, configurable for +4dB and -10dB unbalanced***signal levels.
2 Analog Ins, configured for -10dB unbalanced signal levels.
S/PDIF digital I/O on gold-plated RCA connectors located on the PCI card. A variety of settings, including AC3 or DTS surround and copy protection schemes, may be configured via the Delta Control Panel software.
High dynamic range (A-weighted measured): D/A 101.5 dB, A/D 99.6 dB.
Low distortion (measured THD @ 0dBFS): A/D and D/A less than 0.002%.
Frequency Response

22-22kHz, -0.2,-0.4dB @48kHz
22-40kHz, -0.2,-0.7dB @96kHz
All data paths support up to 24bit/96kHz performance, no upgrades necessary.
Comprehensive digital mixing, routing, and monitoring capabilities with included Delta Control Panel software.
Hardware sample-accurate sync will allow linking of multiple Delta units.
Click to expand...

I'm not planning on taking any more than 8 signals in at a time at the present time but it sure would be nice to be able to bring 16 back out to the desk instead of grouping in cubase and bringing them out in bunches.

I wish I had the cash for another Delta 1010, it's a great box but they're stillretailing over here at £425 ($800?) the 410 is only £120....I know that's over $200 and musiciansfriend.com were selling them at $99.99 but they don't ship to the UK.

Seems like by best option for now unless anyone wants to warn me off some more.

Will I be able to buy an xlr to rca loom or will I have to get one made up somewhere?
 
XLR --> RCA --- yes, it's possible, but you won't be able to use mics with that configuration - and you definitely won't be able to use phantom power.

Also... unbalancing a balanced signal incurs a 6dB loss (since you're losing half the signal)
 
thanks for the input Bruce. I have switchable phantom power right across the board so the 8 channels of the Delta 1010 will let me do this.

The purchase of the 410 is strictle for getting more signal paths out the box and back through the board. I mix down to minidisk and S/PDIF back in for mastering (I know, there's no such thing as effectivley matering your own mixes). I

'm 3 years new to sound production, still stuck in an untreated room with no way of tracking live drums. I see this as a way of gaining experience, not wasting money. I'm always reading your posts Bruce and I'm always learning. I'm not a crazed newby thinking all I need is some fancy Behringer gear with the great free stickers. I want another 1010, another 2 to feed the A&H would be neat but right now this is where the money fits. I work seasonal as a landscape gardner so I'm unemployed for the next 2 months till the weather picks up.

Alec
 
Balanced vs. Unbalanced

Using a balanced circuit doesn't always get rid of hum or noise and you can run unbalanced cables long if the output impedence is low (like below 600 ohms). As long as the signal is line level and not mic level, you can run unbalanced cables as long as you need. Also, I've seen +4 signals coming out of RCA jacks as well. The balanced vs. unbalanced discussion can get very deep. I've installed hundreds of unbalanced studios over the years that were totally quiet. I've installed many balanced studios as well. Unbalanced can sound better but it's an art practiced by few. I'm sure this will wake a few up.
 
newbies seldom lift my eyelids. Thanks for the non commital input.

Alec.
 
You're welcome. I'll be glad to commit but I do much better via phone. I have a bit of a reading comprehension problem. Since I'm new at this, I don't know if it's cool to put my phone number.

Paul
 
thanks for the PM Paul, just looking for someone with first hand experience to say yay or nay before I shell out the greenbacks. Thanks for the input.
 
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