i have a spare room in my apt (i need some help)

[metalmansam]

ok i want to make a studio out of this, the room is 15 feet by 11 ft, with 9 foot ceilings. but the cellings arent that strong. and im kinda on a budget around $600, i would like to sond proof and make it projec the sound better. what i want to do is turn it into a recording studio. i have a computer a desk, some monitors, mics .. ect. i would like some help on building it and placing things. i know i hav to sound proof areound 50 to 75% of the room but where to put everything. hh yea i would like to record and mix in the same room, and im willing to build things.

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

i know i hav to sound proof areound 50 to 75%

Hello metalmansam and welcome to the board. Well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you might as well know the truth from the beginning. First off, there is NO such thing as "soundproof", as it is relative to the db profile of Nuclear bomb or a Shuttle take off. How do you "soundproof" against that? See what I mean? There is ONLY a "transmission loss" that a rooms envelope construction is capable of. And usually, rooms that are built for HIGH SPL Transmission Loss(TL) are carefully constructed and decoupled "rooms WITHIN a room" with envelope "leafs" constructed using materials in such a way as to create MASS AIR MASS-TWO LEAF boundarys, with one leaf DECOUPLED from the other. A standard residential wall is a TWO LEAF assembly. However, it has very little mass, and the two leafs(drywall) are coupled together by virtue of being nailed to the same studs. In order to retrofit an existing structure to improve the TL would require extensive and expensive remodeling, of which is virtually IMPOSSIBLE in an apartment setting. Ask your manager if you don't believe me.
You have very few options in an apartment setting other than:
Build a booth for vocals and acoustical instruments. Even then, isolation will be limited as it is just as difficult to build a HIGH SPL isolation booth as it is a room.
Record direct for bass and other electrical instruments.
Use electronic drums, and or digital percusion machines or computer files, as drums are the most difficult to isolate, even under the BEST of circumstances.
Monitor/mix in headphones.

However, improving the SOUND in an apartment is a relatively easy and inexpensive proposition. There are alread THOUSANDS of threads relating to this subject. Do a search on BROADBAND ABSORBERS and basstraps. People have described these treatments over and over and over. Please do yourself a favor and READ. The answers are all over the place.
Sorry for raining on your parade, but truth is better known from the beginning.
Here are some sites to arm yourself with the most pertinent information available.
http://searcht.netscape.com/ns/boom..._url=http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html
http://www.realtraps.com/
http://forum.studiotips.com/viewforum.php?f=8

 

[metalmansam]

i kinda knew about there was no such thing as %100 sound proffing but i knew it woundt hurt to ask. but i would still like to hear from other people on this site on how to improve the room. thanks, and im also having a hard time finding 705 rigid fiberglass. where can i get that. so ok that is good for the corners of the room (i believe) now the actual wall its self, what to do with that?

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

how to improve te room i am.

Excuse me? What are you trying to say....."te room i am"????????????????? Please speak english.

 

[pandamonk]

i would still like to hear from other people on this site on how to improve the room.

Rick is one of the best on the site to be giving tips on improving your room, with the exception of Ethan Winer. I'd listen to him if i were you.

 

[emergencyexit]

Rick is one of the best on the site to be giving tips on improving your room, with the exception of Ethan Winer. I'd listen to him if i were you.

Speaking of Ethan Winer, where is he at? This is his kind of thread right here. Well anyway, I read up on his acoustics articles for hours and looked all over his sites watching all the movies and finding all info I could. I've got to say, pick a lonely night, and read. Start with http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html this will give you a great general and surprisingly specific understanding of mostly everything you need to know before you look even more specifically. This will take you a while, but don't be turned off by the depth of the articles, TAKE NOTES IT WILL HELP TRUST ME. Once you realize that you are going to need to either buy or build some bass traps and a few mid-high absorbers (maybe) read up on how to do it yourself. Its actually relatively cheap, and guess who's got an article just about it right on his site?!? . With 600 bux just to spend on treatment I think you can easily make your room sound great. After reading the Ethan Winer stuff I went from not really caring at all about acoustic treatment and wondering why my room sounded so bad, to understanding and being willing to drop a good 1 grand on it. I'd say look into it a ton, and when you finish that look into it more. This is kind of a do it right or don't do it at all thing.

Ben

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

This is kind of a do it right or don't do it at all thing.

That means starting with THIS:

how to improve te room i am.

I can understand spelling "typo's" as everyone makes mistakes, but let me give you a clue to something. When it comes to building a room with a high transmission loss rating, ATTENTION TO DETAIL is the name of the game. There is NO room for mistakes, guesses, half assed construction, hindsight repairs, after the fact changes, fly by the seat of your pants assembly or..."oh well"s To succeed, you have to be cognizant of the concepts at hand, diligent, informed and have a firm grasp on your plan. So maybe you ought to change your way of thinking from the getgo, and STOP assuming that even a simple question on a forum is not important enough to type correctly, or use punctuation. There are NO clarivoyants here and those that respond, give YOU the curtesy of at LEAST not making you guess what the fuck they are trying to tell you. When you grasp that concept, you just MIGHT succeed in even treating your room. Its the DETAILS that count.
fitZ

 

[emergencyexit]

That means starting with THIS:

I can understand spelling "typo's" as everyone makes mistakes, but let me give you a clue to something. When it comes to building a room with a high transmission loss rating, ATTENTION TO DETAIL is the name of the game. There is NO room for mistakes, guesses, half assed construction, hindsight repairs, after the fact changes, fly by the seat of your pants assembly or..."oh well"s To succeed, you have to be cognizant of the concepts at hand, diligent, informed and have a firm grasp on your plan. So maybe you ought to change your way of thinking from the getgo, and STOP assuming that even a simple question on a forum is not important enough to type correctly, or use punctuation. There are NO clarivoyants here and those that respond, give YOU the curtesy of at LEAST not making you guess what the fuck they are trying to tell you. When you grasp that concept, you just MIGHT succeed in even treating your room. Its the DETAILS that count.
fitZ

Speaking of half-assed construction, I just started on my Ethan Winer DIY $40 bass traps today (probably turning into about an $800 or so project to start) and In the middle of cutting one of my 8' 1x4s the saw jumped and a corner about 1/2 inch deep by 1/4 inch wide by 3/4 inches long came off. I really didn't see it as that much considering the piece could be flipped around having nothing to do with the entire trap, or the wall its attached to in anyway at all. Do you guys think I should trash this piece? The cut is barely even noticeable to the eye, but I'd really like to do it right. Then again I am young and don't have too much money for more mistakes like this.

By the way I spent about 30 minutes measuring 6 trap, then 30 re-measuring and checking. Is 3rd time the charm or am I good at two, I'm pretty new to DIY construction and don't know how you guys who do it successfully actually do it. Am I being careful enough?

Thanks guys

Ben

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Is 3rd time the charm or am I good at two, I'm pretty new to DIY construction and don't know how you guys who do it successfully actually do it. Am I being careful enough?

When you feel confident with your measurments, thats the time to machine the parts(cut, rip, route, whatever) Planning is key. Make a CUTTING BILL(list), showing thickness, width and length, and double check your parts against the plan. Your plan should show a front view, a top view, a side view, and any sections/details that are required to understand EXACTLY how you are assembling the unit. DIY can be really fun, but can also be an excercise in frustration. Take the frustration out of the equasion by looking at every detail, and see it in your mind thoroughly. Once you know EXACTLY what and how you are doing it, STICK TO YOUR PLAN.
And lastly, when first learning to use power tools, it isn't apparent what NOT to do. Like for instance. When using a CHOP SAW, skill saw or a radial arm saw, make sure the material is squarely against the fence. Other wise the blade will grab and yank the material backward. When this happens, it can scare you and possibly cause you to jerk your hands into a blade. Believe me, I've SEEN it happen. REMEMBER..MURPHY IS ALWAYS AROUND just waiting for you to be an idiot. If you aren't familiar with an operation, get the info from someone who knows, or look on the net. There are tons of forums and info sites about tools.

As far as the piece goes, DON"T compromise. Thats another habit to get into. For your own satisfaction sake, DO IT RIGHT. Even if it cost you a bit more in time and money. You will be glad you did. Everytime you let something go that is funky, you slowly lower your craftsmanship. Like the saying goes,
....good enough for government work.....well, the hell with the government.
BTW, depending on the project, sometimes I'll buy enough material to cover a mistake on the LONGEST piece I'm cutting. That way I save a trip, and, over time, you end up with a supply of various types of materials. Down the road, they come in handy. But like I said, it depends. I don't make many mistakes with this stuff anymore, as I've done it for so long, AND I'm a CAD draftsman.
The thing you DO NOT want to make a mistake on, is UNDERESTIMATING what a tool can do. Both in the positive sense and the negative sense...as in CUTTING YOUR HAND OFF!! BE CAFEFULL. I've seen so many people hurt in shops it would make you sick. Even simple tools such as an electric drill can do SERIOUS damage. I know from experience. Almost removed all the meat from one finger when I tried to enlarge a hole in a piece of sheet metal while holding the piece with a bare hand.....how do you spell M O R O N!! It grabbed the metal and pulled my finger up agaist the 1/2" bit while wrapping the metal around it.........HOLY SHIT did that hurt.
fitZ

PS. One last thing. ASSUME NOTHING! Especially with power tools.

 

[frederic]

PS. One last thing. ASSUME NOTHING! Especially with power tools.

Yes, be careful with power tools.

While using my pneumatic stapler to tack to pieces of wood together (staples make great "wait for the glue to dry" clamps), I rested it on my foot and pulled the trigger. Each piece of wood is 3/8" thick and the staples are 1/2" long so no problem, right?

Wrong.

The last time I used the pneumatic stapler, I apparently took out the staples and replaced them with 1.5" brads, and had forgotten because I always leave 1/2" staples in this particular stapler. I leave brads in the other one. Why I switched? Who knows.

ow. fooking ow.

Sneakers make lousy sawhorses too.

ow. fooking ow.

But to apply four staples, I was too darn lazy to climb over the engines in the front of the garage to get my sawhorses out. But, I was once again reminded how being lazy can cause tremendous pain.

At least I didn't bleed much. Yanked the nail out of my sneaker with a pair of pliars, took off the sneaker/sock and washed the puncture wound, and applied neosporin, slapped on a bandaid, put the sock/sneaker back on, and replaced the brads with staples, and used my other foot as a sawhorse LMAO.

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

The last time I used the pneumatic stapler, I apparently took out the staples and replaced them with 1.5" brads, and had forgotten because I always leave 1/2" staples in this particular stapler.

GAK!! Thats no way to get traction frederic I worked wth a guy who was a JOURNEYMAN cabnet maker, and STILL shot a 2" brad right up the length of his middle finger Exploded the bone. It was never the same after that. I've made a couple of STUPID assumptions myself. Drove three fingers into a dado blade when BACK cutting a dado in Maple on a table saw...it shot the wood backwards out of my hand and since I was actually pushing forward while pulling backwards( ), I ended up with three fingers cut real bad. This was one of those dado blades with 5 or 6 "fingers" with a carbide tip. The maple was so hard, the motor had almost stopped. I ended up with that little piece of skin between two fingers actually holding the blade from turning untill the breaker blew I was lucky it wasn't running full speed. I would have split my hand or lost half of it. Good god, it would have been difficult chording on a guitar.
Very seldom do I backwards cut on a table saw anymore. Its plain dangerous. I also saw another guy get a Pine 1x1 drove right into his stomach about 6" deep. Almost killed him. DON"T assume the little things. In the case of a table saw, ALWAYS keep out of line with the material when ripping small stock.

Sneakers make lousy sawhorses too.

So do legs. I saw a amature home repair guy lay a 2x4 across his leg to make a quick cut with a skill saw I screamed at him too late. He cut half way into his thigh. What a MORON! Even I don't mke those sort of mistakes.

 

[metalmansam]

about the 705 and 703, what kind of backig is good (on the acutal fiberglass)cuz it seems that have aluminum, silversih, paper ect..?