I am about to pull the trigger on a basement studio build

[lenMCHC]

And I'd like some thoughts on the intended design.

I have included a jpg for reference.

First off, this will comprise about 1/4 the space in my basement.
The area is the only unused space, other corners include our serviceable equipment (i.e. water pumps, HVAC, hot water heater etc..), another has the laundry, and the last has a living space/band chill watch tv area.

So, granted, i know this is probably not THE best amount of space to utilize, BUT, it's what I have to work with.

Needs:
- isolation booth, I record an inordinate amount of metal, hardcore, and punk rock. So, I'd rather not have to hear the drums or guitar cabinets in the same room. So, one room is out.
- some what reasonable mix area, i can adapt to the final placement, and learn my room. But, i'd like to be somewhat close in the original concept.

Wants:
- ability to see into the other room
- the room to not only be functional, but look good too. I do have a number of signed bands that work w/ me exclusively.

Considering:
- raised floors (I think i'm ok with the loss of height)
- wall mounted air system in lieu of tying the current house HVAC to this
- 3 new electric circuits for the 2 rooms.
- Wood/glass doors for the 2 pass through doors, alleviating the need for a window.


House construction:
- poured cement floor, cinder block walls, 10" joists, steel I beam down the center, w/ 2 support posts. 2 glass block windows

Things to consider:
- Noise is not really an issue here. My neighbors can't hear it now, w/ it untreated. and my woman doesn't care about it in the house, as she can sleep through hiroshima.. BUT, i'd like to double Sheetrock the sound room at least. and potentially build a room in that room to keep it a bit more separate.

I do realize that square/rectangular rooms are not the best, and I am open to ideas from any and everyone. I'd just like to hear/see them within the coming 2 weeks, before I get the ball rolling.

I thank you all for your help, in advance.
I can take and post pictures of the general space later if you would like to see it.

 

[Weasel9992]

I mean, for what you're doing the proportions look fine. You can't really make either room smaller if you're going to stay with two rooms. I know you don't want to, but I'd strongly suggest going with a single room...8'x12' is really small for a drum room...tough to get anything but a very dry, close sound. The control room will have to be bass trapped from here to eternity.

I'm not saying it can't work, I'm just saying that you're building in some limitations by going with two rooms that you will not have otherwise. The trade off of course is that you have to track with headphones, which can be tough when it comes to judging phase relationships.

Frank

 

[lenMCHC]

@Weasel9992

Yea, I realize it's a pretty small room, on both accounts. but, I feel it's pretty necessary to do so. I'd love to be able to expand into more space, but it just doesn't really exist.

And, I like hearing, so I don't really want to spend hours a week with earplugs in, trying to judge if I've got mic's placed right. So, I'll deal w/ a very small, dense room. I am fine w/ not having too much room sound. I typically do heavier music, so dry drums are what I like anyway.

Thanks!

 

[Yonce N Mild]

Frank beat me to it. One room would be way better.

Edit: Oops. Posted at the same time as you did.

If you are dead set on doing two rooms I'm not sure how you could do much better than your plan there.


You are going to have some difficulty achieving isolation when you are in such close proximity and with such a small space. You may end up listening to drums and amps all day anyway.

I moved from a 1 room 13 x 9 studio to a one room 30 x 20 studio and the difference is night and day. I don't really get a ton of "room sound" but it doesn't sound like I'm recording in a cardboard box anymore either.

At least consider it. Lots of people do it with great results.

 

[Todzilla]

Use the basement if you have no alternatives. I did and had a series of nightmarish problems.

1) HVAC ductwork typically runs through basement ceilings. These do a great job of transmitting sound throughout the house. You bug others, they bug you.

2) Water, basements, nuff said

3) Ceiling constraints make for small spaces

But being below grade helps to mitigate noise leakage into the neighborhood.

 

[chugheshc]

Hi lenMCHC,
Just a thought, I know you didn't want to wear earplugs while getting your kits miced, but I think your space(s) will be very, very difficult to use.
I think the main problem will be physical access - if you have a monitoring/mixing desk set up at 38% of either space, you are in the way of the door path for getting in & out. I suppose it does not matter if you are never going to move any kit in or out, but it's going to be awfully tight!
It's also going to feel claustrophobic - and I don't know about you, but the vibe of the room matters, especially if you are trying to be creative.

I'm speaking from experience; I had an 11X11 room with a miced up kit, mixing desk etc, there was not really much room for anything else.
With the narrower spaces you have, once you have stools, and some guitar amps etc, it is going to be pretty awkward imho.

Another consideration is ventilation - you now need to provide HVAC for two spaces, that are acoustically separate from each other.

Also, acoustically isolating these two rooms from each other is going to eat up space you could use for bass traps (absolutely necessary, especially in small room). (I had 144 sq ft of 4" depth OC703 in my little space).

if the basement is cleared out at this point, maybe lay some tape out on the floor and put your kit in and see how the physical flow is, you may want to reconsider your two room plan.

my two cents, ymmv
cheers
Chris

 

[lenMCHC]

@chugheshc

I do long, grueling sessions of drums for metal bands. and then equally long sessions of guitar's. I just do not feel that one room will make for the best of my abilities.

Now, I do realize that 2 smaller rooms pose it's own list of issues, probably worse than my issue of sound levels in one big room.

I'm not 100% opposed to one big room, would a big room w/ a small booth for vocals, guitar cab mic'ing. I just need tips on what/were to build it.

I can always do drums in another open area in the basement, but that won't be nearly as isolated from potential outside noise.

 

[chugheshc]

A booth is a fine thing to have, especially if you need to do live group stuff and have an isolated vocal track. (soft vocals, classical guitar et)
For the space compromise in your situation (huge, 50%?), and the type of music (Metal), I can't see giving up the room for it.
Now, an isolation cabinet(s) for guitar and bass amp might be worth the trade off.
You mention being isolated from outside noise - for metal drums? really?
You'd have to live in a truck depot, or at the end of a runway to really have a problem. I thought you metal guys would beat map/trigger everything and put samples in anyway (Sidetracked sorry).
Anyhow, I would think about a little isolation room/cabinet across one end, you could also house any outboard above it, bury bass trap in the parts that aren't for utility (you can house, PC, Monitor and you could have the effect of big-time studio isolation, with paying for it in space.
I've been able to record half decent stuff, without even using iso cabs. (i had a big pad of 703 surrounding the back of the mic, between the drums and it).
If you are going to close mic your drums your are almost halfway there already!
Put the vocals on afterwards and use the studio space. If you need live vocals they sing from basement (outside studio) while band plays live.
So yeah, how about a box maybe half stack + 1 foot in thick, across one end of the room? Floor to ceiling. The Bottom of the structure would be an isolation cabinet you could divide in two (bass on one side, guitar cabinet(s) on the other.)
Doors across the front to allow access. You fill the top with hvac, outboard, PC, patch panel and bass trap. Desk sits back couple feet from that.
You want to mic the drums, you go outside the room and sit in the chill room and rdp/vnc back to the rig in the studio. Wireless headphones let you get a feel, wireless sender can let you monitor on stereo in the chill room.
Should you need to, you can sit in the studio an mix the drums if the rest of the house needs quiet.
Just an idea.
I am actually going to be building my second studio space in the next couple of months. shopping for house at the moment. I think I might do something like this.
Do you have the option of where the entrance door is?
Cheers
Chris

 

[lenMCHC]

@chugheshc

www.myspace.com/swashbuckle

that's the last big project I worked on.
funny enough, I'm already working on the new record.

What about a smaller booth, like big enough for a human to stand in. Add space for some rigid fiberglass.. and a window. also, could fit a cab or 2.. I typically re-amp w/ multiple amps, cabs, all going in unison.

 

[chugheshc]

Holy Crap you sure weren't kidding about the Metal.
You guys sound pretty damn decent, even on myspace.
If you're dead set on chopping up your space, nothing anyone says here will make any difference.
You have to decide where to make the compromises; if you think you will be comfortable for the long term in some pretty small spaces, then go for it.
If you want to put a bunch of money and effort into figuring out how to HVAC two rooms and isolate them from each other then go nuts dude.
You want pay for a couple of sets of half decent sold core doors and the trouble of installing them, have a party.
I really wouldn't worry about sound isolation from the outside world, seriously.
I will sum this up, and wait to hear how it goes.

If you are not going to track anybody simultaneously, then you do not need a booth.
If you are going to re-amp you do not need a booth.
You need a decent sized room to work in, and some good acoustic control and bass traps. The smaller you make the room you are working in, the harder these acoustic concepts are to enforce.
I know the cool pro studios have booths, and iso cabinets and control rooms etc, but they also have more than couple hundred square feet to work in. How did you record your myspace tunes? I'm willing to bet you didn't have to duck/twist jam stuff into a tiny room where you had to squeeze in besides your drums and were worried about hitting the ceilings or sidewalls.
Just my two cents - your music sounds good for its genre, good luck with it!'
Cheers
C>

 

[chugheshc]

I just see you have been on here three years longer than me.
You haven't seen the many, many threads where people say don't cut the room up?

 

[lenMCHC]

It's my friends band, but thanks! I try to provide a decent recording.

I used my old 8x8x8 square bedroom w/ blankets and some corner traps i built.
Yea, i know, tiny room.. barely fit the drums in.

I'm more concerned w/ the random cough or noise from upstairs creeping into my sessions, not really the cars or trucks outside. To be honest, I can't hear much from outside the house. And even at full volume inside, you can't hear a ton, outside...

The booth would mainly be for my own sanity, and the occasional need to re-take something due to an errant noise in the overheads. I do replace a number of instruments, and I have an Iso-Cab for bass and for guitar.. but nothing beats pounding 2 or 3 amps, and blending microphones.

Maybe i'll do a full size room.. gah.. so much to think about.