Humifiding My Guitars- Recent Experiences

[stevieb]

I have several Keyser sound-hole humidifers- they work well, but all except one are for smaller holes like on classicals. SH on my Harmony tenor is too small for them. Do have one that fits my dreads- but I have three D-sized guitars, so I gotta get two more.

Put that one in the soundhole of my Martin, and put the guitar, humidifer and an electronic hygrometer in the case. Closed the case and left it there for about 24 hours. The humidity in the case stabilized at the near-optimal 41%. Yahoo!

Put my Vicks humidifier (made for people, not guitars) in my music room, turned it to low and left it there for 12 hours, with the door closed. Humidity went to 52%, at which time I turned it off. It seemed to stabililize there.

I have no worries about anyone damaging my guitars (except myself) and I prefer to have them accessable, so I like humidifying the whole room. ONly concerns I have is the Vicks humidifier has only the most basic controls- off, level I and level II. May not be the best if I am out of town for an extended time- it could either over-humidify the room (although doubt it would) or run out of water. I'll watch it and see how long it takes to empty the resiviour. (I'm sick of trying to figure out how to spell that damn word.)

 

[D28Flatpickr]

A big step up from a Vicks humidifier would be an appliance-type portable room humidifier. They have programmable controls to shut off and turn on a set humidity ranges and shut off when the tank is out of water. The price varies depending on the size of your room. Good ones for around $100 bucks. All portable room humidifiers WILL RUN OUT of water -- so keep that in mind when leaving home for more than two days.

You can also have an heating & air company to give you an estimate to install a whole house humidifier. The unit is installed on the output side of your furnace's main duct and is connected to a water pipe for continuous water supply. there would be wireless humidity sensors installed throughout the house that send signals back a thermostat type control panel where you program the humidity ranges, time/date and schedules. Expect your estimate to be around $1500-$2500 ---but you'll never have to fill up a humidifier tank, eliminate static electricity in winter months, reduce stuffy noses and sore throats, and never lose a a $2500 guitar to a cracked top, back, or split sides.

 

[Light]

I don't know where you live, but in my part of the country, if you keep your house that humid you will rot out all the wood in your home, and will cause mold problems as well.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[Milnoque]

50% RH is considered ideal for clinical environments. Concerns about mold arise as you cross the 60% threshold.

 

[stevieb]

Hmmmm. Why am I reminded of my own "Expert Advise" thread?

 

[muttley600]

Hmmmm. Why am I reminded of my own "Expert Advise" thread?

Then what are you asking? Your original post just makes a few statements about nothing in particular. Mold on timber can start at very low relative humidity levels. Wood eating micro organisms and some termites can thrive in humidity levels of 40%.

An acceptable range for the average home is around 45 -55%. As light says it depends on where you live. RH is dependant on temperature and differentials between your average indoor and outdoor temps.

 

[Milnoque]

The amount of total moisture air can hold is temperature dependant. Since relative humidity is a ratio of the moisture capacity of the air to its content it is not temperature dependant.

Muttley is right, try to maintain the room where you keep your guitars at a fairly constant temperature (whatever is comfortable to you will be fine), and a constant relative humidity of 45 - 55%. These values will be appropriate no matter where you live.

Take D28Flatpickr's advice to heart as well. Use a humidifier that is capable of controlling the levels in the space. Wide fluctuations in space conditions can also be quite destructive to your instruments.

 

[EdWonbass]

I try to keep my house at 72% RH. My house is one big humidor.

Ok not really. I think my old G&L L2000 suffers from low humidity in my garage studio during winter. It is almost unplayable with action so high you could drive a truck under the strings. Any tips for bringing it back.
Sorry about the hijack.

 

[muttley600]

The amount of total moisture air can hold is temperature dependant. Since relative humidity is a ratio of the moisture capacity of the air to its content it is not temperature dependant.

Muttley is right, try to maintain the room where you keep your guitars at a fairly constant temperature (whatever is comfortable to you will be fine), and a constant relative humidity of 45 - 55%. These values will be appropriate no matter where you live.

Take D28Flatpickr's advice to heart as well. Use a humidifier that is capable of controlling the levels in the space. Wide fluctuations in space conditions can also be quite destructive to your instruments.

Not with you? Are you saying that the relative humidity is not dependant on the gas temperature or that it is? Both the due point and any given relative humidity are effected by temperature and are related, they are not linear, they are therefore dependant on temperature or am I missing something in our descriptions?

 

[Light]

50% RH is considered ideal for clinical environments. Concerns about mold arise as you cross the 60% threshold.

Not the issue.

At a certain point the moisture no longer stays in the air - it condenses out on various cold surfaces, such as you windows, and the studs in your wall. The water on the windows rolls down the window and collects on the wood work below the window, which is then sitting there in standing water, which causes mold. Similarly, it will condense out on the studs in your walls, where it freezes until spring, at which point it thaws and soaks into your studs, which causes mold. I know, I've had it happen in my house.



Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[Light]

Muttley is right, try to maintain the room where you keep your guitars at a fairly constant temperature (whatever is comfortable to you will be fine), and a constant relative humidity of 45 - 55%. These values will be appropriate no matter where you live.

If you try to keep those humidity levels in a place with a cold winter you will destroy your house. The warm humid air comes into contact with cold surfaces, and it chills quickly, causing the moisture in the air to condense out. Around here contractors tell you not to let the humidity in your house get above about 30% when it is cold outside. By cold, I mean below 20 degrees Fahrenheit. The colder it gets, the lower you need to keep the humidity.

I know, I've experienced it. Back when I was humidifying a (basement) room to those levels, I had problems with mold IN THE ATTIC, and the paint on the (heavily shaded) north wall was constantly peeling (along with a myriad of other issues). Every contractor who ever looked at these issues (guys who have been doing contracting in this area for decades) agreed - the humidity in the house was too high. Guitars need high humidity, but houses hate it.

Keep your guitars in cases, with good in case humidifiers. It is the best, safest option, end of story.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[Light]

Hmmmm. Why am I reminded of my own "Expert Advise" thread?

You know, sometimes an expert becomes an expert by seeing every possible situation a couple hundred times. After a while, you actually do learn what you are talking about. For instance, when you spend 60-80 hours a week working in a shop that fixes almost 2000 guitars a year for the last 38 years.

But hey, maybe all our satisfied customers are idiots.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[Milnoque]

Not with you? Are you saying that the relative humidity is not dependant on the gas temperature or that it is? Both the due point and any given relative humidity are effected by temperature and are related, they are not linear, they are therefore dependant on temperature or am I missing something in our descriptions?

I didn't explain myself very well did I?

The appropriate percentage of relative humidity to keep a guitar properly humidified is constant regardless of temperature. As the temperature drops, a given volume of air will have a constant dewpoint and a rising relative humidity.

 

[Milnoque]

If you try to keep those humidity levels in a place with a cold winter you will destroy your house. The warm humid air comes into contact with cold surfaces, and it chills quickly, causing the moisture in the air to condense out. Around here contractors tell you not to let the humidity in your house get above about 30% when it is cold outside. By cold, I mean below 20 degrees Fahrenheit. The colder it gets, the lower you need to keep the humidity.

I know, I've experienced it. Back when I was humidifying a (basement) room to those levels, I had problems with mold IN THE ATTIC, and the paint on the (heavily shaded) north wall was constantly peeling (along with a myriad of other issues). Every contractor who ever looked at these issues (guys who have been doing contracting in this area for decades) agreed - the humidity in the house was too high. Guitars need high humidity, but houses hate it.

Keep your guitars in cases, with good in case humidifiers. It is the best, safest option, end of story.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

I shouldn't post when I'm really tired - My apologies.

I support everything you said in this post. I would add that the OP and you could probably have the space he describes as long as he chose a location with no exterior walls.

I was thinking only from the perspective of the instruments and their environmental requirements.

 

[philboyd studge]

I just put a damp 1/2 sponge in one of those clear plastic string packs in cases of all my acoustic instruments and re dampen them every week or so. I have no idea what the humidity is in there but it has worked well for many years and I have none of the typical problems of tops, finish cracks, or frets that you'd typically see in desert guitars.

 

[muttley600]

I didn't explain myself very well did I?

The appropriate percentage of relative humidity to keep a guitar properly humidified is constant regardless of temperature. As the temperature drops, a given volume of air will have a constant dewpoint and a rising relative humidity.

Indeed, and yes you want to aim for a constant acceptable range of RH in which to store your guitars. 45 - 55% being the best option. As the RH rises towards the higher end the mass of air is less willing to add to the air water mix and more willing to lose moisture. That is the point light was making and in some circumstances a valid one. Temperature and temp differentials plays a huge role in the RH of any air water mixture and that body of air water to hold or take on more moisture. All that is also true for timber.

It generally isn't hard to keep a range of between 45 - 55% in most places that we are live and socialise. We have a very mixed climate here in the UK and it's never been an issue for me in the workshop or home.