How to Make The Chorus Sound Grand, Epic

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240v

240v

Super Perfectionist
Hello,

Listening to professional songs, I have noticed that they make the chorus sound really big and epic. I've tried a few things on my DAW, but was wondering if there are a few things in general that could make a chorus sound big. Thanks!
 
tbf i've had/have the same problem on some tracks and i find that it comes down to arrangement and perceived volume. for example, i try and keep the verses spacious and quite empty and then introduce another guitar/keys/stings/stacked backing vocals to the chorus to thicken it up.

You'd be amazed at how much a good arrangement for a piece has on the overall effect of the big chorus sound. if you listen to a lot of big pop tracks you'll notice how different the instruments and parts are between the verses and chorus'
 
Justsomeguy said:
I try and keep the verses spacious and quite empty and then introduce another guitar/keys/stings/stacked backing vocals to the chorus to thicken it up.
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This is it.
If you start a song with everything in, the only way is down.
Listen to some classic power ballads (eugh, i know), but listen to the difference between verses and choruses.

It seems to hard to figure out yourself, but when you actually takes notes from a great example, it's surprisingly simple.

I try to maintain a bit of dynamic range too. I'll actually keep the verse vocals a little quieter than the chorus for example. Not much, but it makes all the difference.
Depending on the music, some kind of pad can work well, and a hook to really identify the choruses.
Sometimes I'll put a pad of oohs and ahhhs, or strings, or sustained power chords, with a little acoustic or piano melody.
Little stamps that just say "hey! I'm the chorus! :)"
 
Steenamaroo said:
If you start a song with everything in, the only way is down.
. . . a hook to really identify the choruses.
. . . a little acoustic or piano melody.
Little stamps that just say "hey! I'm the chorus! :)"
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Yes ! Bring back the counter-point melody ! . . . The trend to just bang power-chords during the chorus and return to a mellow verse is SOOO played out. . . I always felt it really highlighted a band's inability write an interesting song. . No understanding of arranging or "real" dynamics. . .

Use of a chorus hook-line in an intro, counter-point melodies, using an alternate instrument to play/harmonize a line - - seem to be a lost art lately, but add so much to even the simplest songs, and gives alot of push to a chorus. . . (Was this originally a mix question, or a songwriting question? ;) )
 
AtoDeficient said:
The trend to just bang power-chords during the chorus and return to a mellow verse is SOOO played out
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Well, That makes it seem a little black and white; You gota use some discretion. :p

Counter melodies, harmonies and hooks are totally my thing. I love all that, mostly because of the sounds, but party because a lot of 'musicians' are wowed by someone who can do that.
It just seems foreign and mystical to a lot of people.
 
AtoDeficient said:
Use of a chorus hook-line in an intro, counter-point melodies, using an alternate instrument to play/harmonize a line - - seem to be a lost art lately, but add so much to even the simplest songs, and gives alot of push to a chorus. . . )
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And this really separates the men from the boys. the amount of young bands i've had walk through my door who 1) don't know when not to play and 2) there's 4 or 5 members but only one singer and the rest daren't open their mouth to even "oh" or "ah". it's such a joy when you get a band in who have really worked on the songs and all you have to is capture it :D

The thing is, when you listen to big selling pop records (whether that's your bag or not) all, or at least most, of the points made by everyone above exist in these songs, even if you don't notice is (that's the true art of it). i love songs where every time you listen you hear something else, like an arpeggiated piano riff or little guitar riff that sits under the chords or that cheeky bit of percussion that plays against the groove and just lifts the track.

never underestimate the power of the tambourine
 
Also work on the overall dynamics of the arrangement so that the final chorus is the biggest.
a lot of song start of sorf and build up by adding instruments through out the arrangement.
heres a classic example
Snow Patrol - Chasing Cars - YouTube
I only listened to the first two verses and the begining of the chorus but heres a brief outline of whats happening.
A very short intro just a simple guitar chord riff
Verse 1 the same chord riff with soft vocals
Verse 2 same guitar add a soft background synth including vocals
Chorus add further guitar played in twice as much more and up the volume of the vocals.
Further reading on this can be had in Pat pattisons Berklee press book Songwriting : Essential guide to lyrical form and structure.
sooner or later the bass and drums enter and the whole thing tells a growing story that just gets bigger and bigger until if i remember right at the last chorus it goes back to a simple spacious feel just when you least expected it. Surprising the listener.
Classic like the begining could be the end.
Its like a good book or film.
the thing i love about so many tarrentino films is you get to see the ending first then the story unfold in a timeline that takes you back to where you started.
I hope this makes sense i just feel like i'm rambling now.
 
Justsomeguy said:
. . . the points made by everyone above exist in these songs, even if you don't notice is (that's the true art of it).
Click to expand...

That's really what separates the skilled songwriter/arranger from the . . . rest. Keeping it interesting. Dropping in early clues to a story as it unfolds musically. . . Repeating the hooks with minor alterations. . . Changing the song's key. . . Building to a climax. . .We want the listener to WANT to hear it again, and if they hear it all in the first pass, they likely won't want to hear it again, which is really the oppposite of a "hit". . .

When I hear a well-arranged song I always think, "Wow, Thanks!, I appreciate that."
 
Yes, for sure the arrangment and dynamic (the former most of the time creating the latter) are the first condition for a BIG chorus.
One thing you might considering in your arrangments for the chorus is to put some mid freq. sustained instrument. The obvious ones are a wall of electric guitars (with or without disto.) and stack of voices. But I found that Brass (a trombone, trumpet, saxes) and strings (quartet) brings a lot of textures, volumes and power to a chorus. All of a sudden, this stacked mid. freq. instruments makes you move.
In the same vein, accoustic piano overdubs played in the 4-5 octaves and well panned will do great job too at expanding your chorus.
In the end, just remember that the money is in the sustained sounds of your arrangments rather than in the more peaky sounds. Especially once the mastering limiter had passed on your mix. The "perceived" (that's what it's all about: perception) volume will be higher and your peak level will stay under conrtrol at the same time. That's how things sounds big in my opinion. Not sure, listen to some Beatles, U2, Coldplay, Arcade fire chorus.

Cheers.
 
analog sound said:
In the same vein, accoustic piano overdubs played in the 4-5 octaves and well panned will do great job too at expanding your chorus. ...Not sure, listen to some Beatles, U2, Coldplay, Arcade fire chorus.
Click to expand...

keys and piano's in tracks are such an understated trick. it doesn't need to be loads but even a piano lick following the main vocals line can just lift a chorus. i did a project at the end of last year with an indie band and the singer really wanted the Arcarde Fire kinda feel to stuff and adding some keys to chorus' bought the tracks to life. And percussion; never forget percussion! shaky eggs, tambourine, wood blocks, sleigh bells, the keys in your pocket, if you can shake it or hit it, try it!

One of tracks that stood out to me a couple of years ago as a well thought out arrangement is Kesha's "tik tok". although it makes me feel slightly dirty every time i hear it, and whether you like it or hate it, you can't deny that the use of instrumentation and vocal harmonies is super effective in making the chorus really "pop"
 
"Why not try working backwards? See if you can make the previous section smaller‑sounding, in some way, than it currently is."

This is something I use often.

I'll intentionally make the verses narrower than you'd like, and sometimes even tame some of the high end just the slightest amount.
It's so subtle that no ones ever going to say it sounds dull, but when the chorus comes in there's a notable impact.
When the second verse comes I don't immediately revert. I do it gradually with automation.

It's been said, it's all about perception. A great example is when you hear a full blown rock song with that distant sounding hi+low passed dirty guitar.
If it lasts long enough, you kinda get used to it, then BANG....it kicks in, and you're like, "oh yeah, that's how real music sounds! WOW."
 
Not exactly what we're talking about, but sort of....I often will make the first chorus a half chorus, just as a teaser. Then, the second chorus is a full chorus, same with the third, but maybe adding harmonies or another guitar, etc....But I like having a "teaser" half chorus the first time around, right back into a verse.

I obviously didn't invent this, it's done quite often.
 
"Why not try working backwards? See if you can make the previous section smaller‑sounding, in some way, than it currently is."

In fact, really good idea too. It create dynamic at the same time.
 
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