how to get proof of copyright ownership

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TrutH

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All rise, you shall now have a truth talk of how to protect yourselves from copyright theft!!! (background music please)

Let us say that you have just composed and produced a smashing hit. You show it to your "friend" who robs the song and buys a nice villa next to madonna on your back. All because you could not prove that you owned the rights to that song.

The truth shall now teach you how to avoid such a tragedy. it is the simplest thing and cheapest. You could either go to a notary or lawyer and pay lots of money so that the song will be officially recognised by the state as being owned by yourself.
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You could send a copy by registered mail to yourself and leave the envelope sealed. this will offer that same amount of protection.

Reason: copyright protection lies in the fixation of an idea into some material form. unlike patents there is no need for registration.

Enjoy mailing stuff guys.

the truth has planted its seed......
 
urban legend (n. )

An apocryphal story involving incidents of the recent past, often including elements of humor and horror, that spreads quickly and is popularly believed to be true.


Sorry dude. Mailing doesn't hold up in court. Go out and register your copyrights.
 
Eurythmic is correct. There have been a number of people who lost millions trying to use self-mailing. That form of protection hasn't been legally valid for 50 years. (see, not even the government trusts the US Post Office!)

You can copyright any work or entire collection (album) of works for $40 through the Copyright Office. Do it.
 
This system seems to work pretty well in Europe and I guess that it should work in usa too. The reason is that copyright does not work through registration of the song. Copyright is created with "the fixation" of the recording. Once a person has proof that he has ownership of the material at an earlier stage than another he is the legitimate owner. This is an accepted fact even in USA. No urban legend, this is the truth! And it will surely stand in court. Proof of first possession of the material is the funadamental element. If mail is registered it will contain a postage date, that is what is needed.

Peace!
 
TrutH, unfortunately the American legal system has no basis in logic.

Self-mailed copyrights have been struck down here in the courts. They ARE invalid. The only legal way of fixing copyright in the US is through the US Copyright Office.
 
Speaking just for the U.S., that mail it to yourself stuff doesn't hold water. Also, unless a song is REGISTERED, a writer loses
the big stick that would get a lawyer to take the case on a contingency basis....the ability to sue for PUNITIVE instead of just actual damages and to recover legal fees.

Also, from the copyright cases I've studied, it looks like the
biggest problem is proving the other party had access to your
version even if their version is identical. This looks like a pretty tough job.
 
FORM PA (How do I copyright a collection)

TimOBrien said:
Eurythmic is correct. There have been a number of people who lost millions trying to use self-mailing. That form of protection hasn't been legally valid for 50 years. (see, not even the government trusts the US Post Office!)

You can copyright any work or entire collection (album) of works for $40 through the Copyright Office. Do it.
Click to expand...

i've got my forms (PA) in hand. How do I copyright a collection? Which form do i use? Also, if I am my own publisher, which i am, can i change the name (of the publishing co.) in the future? thanks all
 
Well, there is no limit to the number of songs you can send
in under one collection name. You can name it "Joan Smith
Collection # 1" or even more creative like "Joan's summer songs
of love", ect. Whatever will fit in the title box. Use form PA.
Another option is using form SR which would register the
sound recording as well as the material inside.

They don't specifically say how to do it, what media to use, ect.
You can just sing the songs into a cassette or they could be fully demoed. So you could put them on cassette, DAT, CD, reel to reel tape, ect.

You can put the lyrics(or in my case lead sheets since I do those
for myself anyway) in a binder in the same order that they
are on the tape, listing the name of each writer. That's the way
I like to do but you could just put them all on tape and not send any written lyrics. I like sending the lyrics as well in case some of the songs are written by more than one person.

You can include songs written by yourself and songs co-written by you and someone else. But all the songs are supposed to have a COMMON writer. That means the other writer cannot throw in songs they wrote just by themselves.

I'd copyright these in your name, not your publishing company
name. And sure, you can always change the company name later.
That's pretty much the basics right there.

PaulB
 
ok, so i just list the title of the collection on form PA. I don't have to specify the titles of the specific songs. but i do include the lyric sheets of each song with the cd/cassette? i also read somewhere that you can eventually copyright each individual song after they are registered as a collection for a small amount. ($60 for everything?) Does anyone know any info about that process? Thanks all and thanks PaulB!
 
Some people do both the PA and a SR, because of the usage loopholes. You don't need to include the lyrics. The CopyRights home page has a faq section as well as instructions for the particular usage of each form. And the law is a first come first serve menality. They register your music because there might be a case where someone might have come up with the exact thing at another time, they don't preview or anything to see if is an original work. If at some time there is a dispute they will make a determination to who filed first. The 60 dollar deal from TAXI usually cost you money to join to use that service, unless your already a member it not worth it for just copyright registration discounts.

Peace,
Dennis
 
Another thing I might add.
When someone of importance hears a song of yours and decides to record it, the first thing they do is check the copyright. If they can't find a proper legal copyright, they drop it.
Ya gotta have it copyright the right way.
 
Bunnygirl,

>ok, so i just list the title of the collection on form PA. I don't have >to specify the titles of the specific songs. but i do include the >lyric sheets of each song with the cd/cassette?

As already pointed out, you do not have to include lyrics. And
again, I use lead sheets instead of lyrics. But I submit them
with a cassette because a friend pointed out to me once that
media like cassettes, CD's can fail but the paper may be yellowed
but still be readable in case the cassette fails. I also like to
include lead sheets or lyrics because I have often included
songs written just by me and also written with others in the
same collection and by putting the names of the writers on the
lead or lyric sheets, I feel this shows who wrote what. You
might be able to include a seperate sheet listing the title of each song and the writer in case of co-writes. I'm just telling you the
way I've done it.


>i also read somewhere that you can eventually copyright each >individual song after they are registered as a collection for a >small amount.

Well, that's one of the things I've never done. But lets say
a publisher signs one of your songs already copyrighted in
a collection. I think they would use form PA. Question five
deals with that, I think. They would probably check box that
said it was previously registered as an unpublished work
and give the collection title but again, I'm not sure of that.

The other form I checked into is form CA which is to be used
in case some of the information is incorrect or incomplete, like
maybe getting a writer's name wrong or the title wrong.

I don't think not having a song registered with the copyright office would keep somebody from recording it. In fact, if it was
registered as a collection, the copyright office says "only the
collection title will appear in the catalogs and indexes of the copyright office" so how would they know for sure whether it
was copyrighted. Also, its my understanding that the publishing
companies in Nashville don't copyright a song until it is being
recorded. Just my take.

PaulB
 
PaulB.
I've a question, if you don't mind.

I have a song I wrote back in the late 70s. It's a Blues/Rock thing.
Over the years I began playing in Jazz clubs, country honky tonks, etc.
I took that song and kept the word, but made two other songs out of it. Different Chords, Melody, Bass, Drums, everything.

Will I run into a problem if I send in for copyright on all three?
I'm the sole writer, no one else.
Just because the music is different with the same words does that matter?

I've been playing 40+ years, but this is pretty new stuff to me. I've been reading some about it, but don't know where to look for answers.

I'd appreciate any advice.
Thanks.
 
Badgas,

So if I understand it right, its the three songs with the
exact same words but different melodies? Well, I'm no
expert and this sure ain't legal advice but here's my take.

I don't think you'll have any problem at the copyright office.
Where you might run into a problem is this: you sign song
A with a music publisher. Then you sign song B with a different
publisher. Now, when you sign the contract, the publisher, not you the writer, becomes the owner of the song. So when you
signed the contract on song B with a different publisher, you may have very well infringed on the rights of the first publisher, even if you are the same writer.

But if you never sign more than one song to be published, or if you sign all three but its to the same publisher, then it probably wouldn't make any difference. Maybe it would be like some guy who sings a song and changes the lyrics all the time. Just my take.

PaulB
 
PaulB
I didn't think of that. A good point.
I'll probably only send in one song, the Blues/Rock style.
I'll keep looking for a legal answer and when I find it I'll post it.
Thanks for the advice.
 
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