How might I improve this for local radio?

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SLuiCe

SLuiCe

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I just completely re-mixed an older song and I'm thinking of sending it to a couple of local stations (along with some money or candy or something!) I've heard some really bad shit on local radio so I figure I might have a shot at it :D

My ears are completely fried now but I think there are a few different routes to go with mixing this song. I'd like to hear some suggestions. Is it overproduced? Poorly EQ'd? Should I re-record anything? Anything sound unnatural or out of place? Should I scrap the whole idea and keep writing more stuff, or just remix it?

Thanks for any opinions !

If you're in a good mood and don't want to spoil it, turn back now!

:D

www.nowhereradio.com/sluice/singles
"DRY"

Peace
Tom

EDIT: I am looking for a beating here. Tear it apart and have fun doing it. I want to find every weakness.
 
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Hey Tom,you left the "h" out of nowhereradio in the url.
 
Right out of the gate I can hear a lot of sibilance on the vox.(lead vox only)

Im sure the masters will tear the mix apart and help you out with it.

I think I've heard this before.Cool tune......you're leaps and bounds above most of the guys here.That might motivate them to take you up on the "beating".:D
 
If I had to pick a song of yours that I'd like to hear on the radio, it would have to be Rhythms... that first verse is practically entrancing... it's also much shorter than Dry, (which helps it have a better chance of being played) and it has a more commercial appeal IMNSHO. :cool: My second pick for "radio friendly" would be Run For Your Life... but it's a bit long.. (not that I mind that.. I'm speaking strictly in terms of "radio friendliness".. :p )

I know this isn't the input you were looking for (sorry)... but I figured I'd offer my purely subjective, personal opinion just for the heck of it... :D (and because I'd like you to have to best chance possible of gettin' your stuff played.. :cool: )

WATYF
 
Hey Sluice,
.......Another great song. ....I remember this one. as usual very memorable.
.........Just a touch of noise noticable at the beginning. .....sounds like a hot pre. Nice solid low end. Very nice processing on the lead vocs, not too much, but enough....might be a touch harsh somewhere in the high mids...... . Im not real fond of the ride cymbal...but its a small thing. I like the piano piece at 3:55 and its purpose, very classy. Niiiiice solo section @ 4:52... wouldnt hurt my feelings if it were a touch louder......again, small things. I like how you start and end the song w/ that pinched down guit. Theres that noise again at the end....... ......damn that noise all to hell!:D
Great song again bro, there's no reason this shouldnt be blastin the airwaves......... 'lesst them programmers there in Maine are just ..........pussy's........... :mad: :D :D

G
 
Thanks fellas....

Kramer- those esses a bit loud? I recorded them on a sm58 a while ago. I kinda liked the little sibiance I heard actually, and I usually don't, but it may have got outa hand by the time I finished mixing last night. I'll check it out. I'm tempted to re-do the vox with better mics. The trouble with gear upgrades is ever-present. When do you stop going back! :eek: (Fixed the "H" in the link- thanks bro)

WATYF- For some reason I thought "Rhythms" would have less appeal, but that shows you what I know about others' tastes! Nothing. :D I'm probably going to send a couple tunes though. "Run For Your Life" would be my choice too, but I see no way to cut it down to 3:00. I've got new songs I'm working on, but I'm trying to get an idea of the level of production I'm going to need. Some of the stations are college, and they are a lot more forgiving, but one is the major station that has a local and indie show. Now that I think of it, maybe "Rhythms" would be a better choice. You are now my official radio consultant. Whether you like it or not.
"I know this isn't the input you were looking for (sorry)... "
That's just plain wrong.

Guernica- I may have that ride mixed in poorly, should be ambient, but probably isn't...thanks! And what noise exactly? Maybe I'll hear when I play it back. Did you get that PM about the new collab song?

Thanks for the ears guys. I'm always nervous about pre-mature posting right after a mix. :D



EDIT: I've got a much better mix posting to NWR right now. Much cleaner and more defined IMO. Mike, do you think I should ditch the ride?
 
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Kramer said:
you're leaps and bounds above most of the guys here.That might motivate them to take you up on the "beating".:D
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your damn right that motivates me! :D



hey SLuiCe, there is noise in the beginning.. It is the type of noise that I get when I record while the T.V. is on.. Nothing major, but it wasn't there before.. (I don't think) I am looking to bust chops on this one.. :)

lower the ride cymbal that you always use! :eek: There is not enough bass in the choruses imhop.. like at 2:40 etc.. Every now and then the vocals sound sibilant... more bass drum, lower the ride.. vocals sibilant again... you know I love the song so I'll skip that part.. the acoustic leads are just a bit crisp in a few spots.. more sibilant vocal.. There is something mid-range going on with this.. I love this song.. Maybe one day you will use a different ride cymbal on a song, but that might not bother others.. Something sounds brittle about the choruses.. almost distorting from limiting I'll bet.. Just in the loud sections, but I would fix it if it was me..



Overall, all these things I mentioned mean nothing because it sounds better than my stuff for the most part, and the song is excellent.. You could send it as is, but I would fix the choruses at least..




you suck!!! :mad:
























I mean...................... I suck.. :(
 
Thanks Sam...that settles it. I'm going to change the ride and retake the vocals with a condenser mic. Any suggestions for replacing the ride?
 
I wouldn't re-do the vocals.. They are very good man.. You can probably just e.q. them imhop.. cutting instead of boosting.. As far as the ride, just lower it where it stands out too much.. like 2 ish etc.

Keep in mind that I am listening under a magnifying glass so everything I said can be ignored and most people wouldn't care.. I really wouldn't go crazy redoing tracks.. just remix.. that's all it needs imhop..



You also have to keep in mind that I think this sounds better than most of what I do, so you shouldn't listen too much to my suggestions because I really should be listening to your suggestions, rather than advising..
 
Hey Sluice --

Very deep tune you have hear. Sounds great to me (here on the lo-fi) ...

Okay, you are asking about Radio Friendly --

1) I didn't hear a real discernable hook until the chorus came in right around 2:55 or so. For radio this may be too long to wait.
2) It is a long song and radio usually is looking for something around 3 1/2 to possibly 4 minutes, though I really enjoyed the build-up to it.
3) The playing and singing is excellent!

Okay, these are just my opinions. I think the song is great, but I don't know if it is radio friendly in the sense that there is not a real good hook at the beginning to get the general radio listening public's attention. -- imhop -- :) Maybe if you started the song on the chorus and then went into the verse, this may get the hook right out there, but then you will lose the build-up so that is a tough call.

Thanks for giving us a listen. Sometimes radio just sucks, and the things you need to do to get on the radio can equal selling out in a sense. I really enjoyed this song!
 
SLuiCe said:
WATYF- For some reason I thought "Rhythms" would have less appeal, but that shows you what I know about others' tastes! Nothing. :D I'm probably going to send a couple tunes though. "Run For Your Life" would be my choice too, but I see no way to cut it down to 3:00. I've got new songs I'm working on, but I'm trying to get an idea of the level of production I'm going to need. Some of the stations are college, and they are a lot more forgiving, but one is the major station that has a local and indie show. Now that I think of it, maybe "Rhythms" would be a better choice. You are now my official radio consultant. Whether you like it or not.
"I know this isn't the input you were looking for (sorry)... "
That's just plain wrong.
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Well.. I was giving you advice on a totally unrelated topic (sort of) so I didn't want you to think I was being impertinent. :p Anywhoo... I agree,.. It would rock if you could chop down Run for Your Life just for a "radio mix". (that would prolly make it my number one choice for "radio friendly" if you could) But I don't see any way to do that... oh well... I guess it will just have to remain "unadulterated". :cool: And I don't doubt that I have an "ear" for radio (unfortunately :p)... that is all I listen to after all. :)

Good luck whichever way you go... P.S. I agree aboot the ride being too loud... it doesn't need to be replaced,.. just brought down a little. The only "complaint" I have about most of your mixes (in general) is that the percussion stands out too much. Just some subtle level changes would help a lot.

WATYF
 
Hey Sluice,
.....re: the ride......yeah man, ditch that badboy........its just way too synthetic sounding. I disagree w/ the above comments re: overpowering percussion. I think that is a style issue that "works" for you. Youve never gotten "lick happy" in my experience...... its all been very tasteful. To me, half of the appeal of a song is the way the artist "cuts it up".....that is, starts and stops his sentences.....(and im not refering to grammar). I like your punctuation.


That noise i mentioned might be an mp3 issue.



ps....yup got the col. .....great stuff bro! check yer pm's
 
I was about come on and say drop the thread I'm completely re-doing it all. But I read your new posts, and maybe I just need to make a few more adjustments. Alright, several more.

I totally know what you guys mean about this arrangement for radio. It's how I write, and I have trouble otherwise because I just don't think about the radio as much as I maybe should. Because it would sure beat swinging a hammer for a living. But I doubt I'll go to deep into that water. It would be nice to find the perfect (personal) balance between what is "catchy" and what I actually hear when I close my eyes. You know what I mean?
I wasn't thinking of using this to try and "make it big" or something, just clean and clear enough for local shows so that I wouldn't just be rejected because of sound quality. If they didn't like the song itself, I would completely understand.

Thanks for all the great advice guys. Exactly the advice I was looking for both techically and artistically.

-Tom
 
nice tune to start with......

i have been told that big long musical breaks are a no-no..until you have a name for yerself and people will accept it...sorta after the first verse it does just that big musical break ....
this song does rock tho..
solo is niiiiccceeee......is this drum machine if it is nice job on programmng..!!..

r u tryint to get this on what kinda station..??>.college?...mainstream???...it is a litttle long at what 8 minutes....i love the tone change on the outro guitar ....

i noticed the vocals were a bit fltat a coupla places but that was it....this IS a great fucking song...just dont know what else to say other than that...

jamal
 
SLuiCe said:
I totally know what you guys mean about this arrangement for radio. It's how I write, and I have trouble otherwise because I just don't think about the radio as much as I maybe should. Because it would sure beat swinging a hammer for a living.
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Pantera - 'Far Beyond Driven' - platinum without one song ever being played on the radio..




Slayer - 'Reign in Blood' - Gold without one song ever being played on the radio..




Black Sabbath -almost every album went platinum without the radio..




If I was you, I would not change anything about a song for the radio.. I would get the recording sounding great, (like this almost does), and drop it off..

your songs are great..










don't be a 'sell out!' :eek:
 
Here Here -- Have to agree with Sab on this one! The radio is certainly not the "Be-All, End-All" ...

Just be true to your vision and it doesn't matter! If it is good enough and you are true to yourself, then others will pick up on that and it doesn't take the radio to dictate these things ...

And remember, most of the stuff that does get on the radio is not necessarily because it is great by any means. It is only because there is some kind of backer pushing for it, and who knows, maybe payoffs are involved. But if the artist is not true to themselves, then it doesn't really matter anyway! It is here today and gone tomorrow.

You are creating some fine pieces of music! Keep up the good work!
 
Tom,


This comment is along the lines of what WATYF says... though a different song IMO might work better. If you're worried about sound quality, then it's not even an issue: "Chrysalis" is your best mix to date, period (IMO :)). The others all have that mid-heavy sound in comparison (a mid-heavy sound which is difficult to get rid of, btw... speaking from current experience :p)

"Dry" is a good song, tho. If you're looking for a different ride sound... what do you track with? A DAW that could use VST plugins? If so, IMHO the LM-4 drum module with the 24-bit multi-layered Wizoo sets is a very good choice. Good ride sounds... the only thing IMHO just a bit cheesy about the Wizoo sets are the hi-hats (but that's being really picky). They have good, multi-layered tom toms too... which could help "Chrysalis" as well.

Promised sam and others to listen on monitors... so I'll give Dry a listen in there today ... a bit later (have to send the files from this PC to the MAC... etc...)

EDIT: As far as radio goes... go for it! Two local radio stations (105.7 & 102.3) here have locals-only shows sunday nites, one of them is 2-hours long! Some of the stuff is good, but other stuff is embarrassingly bad... Go for it. Your stuff is more AOR-oriented, which is much better than your RIAA, cookie-cutter crap anyway.
 
I think it would be a victory for music fans everywhere if this got on the radio. Man, I have to compliment you on the way you panned the reverb on the vocal at the beginning (I'm listening on headphones). That is so cool.

I obviously don't have any mix input that might be even remotely helpful, but starting at 1:33, "IS TIME A FACTOR FOR YOU," the backup is "off" until the end of the phrase..(i.e., the last part of "you" is fine). I don't know if it's flat or sharp, but it's sticking out to me. (Oh great...Jamal is the only other person who mentioned anything about a vocal pitch problem, thereby further convincing some people that we're the same person...*sigh*).

Sibilance at 3:12...sounds like a compression problem.

I don't think you need to redo the vocal. Except for the (very spare) sibilance, I think it sounds great. I've been considering going back to the SM58 for vocals recently, so I very selfishly want you to keep the vocal as is, because that'd make it okay for me to use a dynamic mic again, right? :D

There's that panned verb again...DUDE, I LOVE THAT!! Supreme attention to detail.

I listened a couple of times last night, and 3 times more before I posted, so if I missed some stuff, it's not for lack of trying.

Oh yeah, I agree with Chad about Chrysalis...great tune....great recording.

THE END
 
the opening guitars are thin and tinny sounding...the same with the riffing around the 2 min mark.
the repeat echos on the vocals don't do much for me this time...and I usually like that kinda stuff.
Nice song..but not for a "one shot" at a radio station. There is no real hook, main melody line...you know..that radio-garbage-shit-ya-gotta-have stuff. The singing I like...the tune also...but if you where in a car...is THIS what you'd want to hear cruisin' down the freeway??....well maybe on a looong trip...but this tune is too "mellow"...and that kinda stuff for a lack of better words. Plus...it's waaaaaaaaaay tooooooo long...(you radio-dimwit!!!)

for mp3 clinic...B .,...B+
for radio submission... C ....C-
recording quality .....B
tune... B
length for radio F!!! ha!!
seriously.... decent stuff...but "filler" for your [most excellent] CD.
 
I was reading the comments on this song(I already commented on this song in another thread) and happened to see WATYF's comment on liking rhythm best of all.

So I listened, and MAN , I love RHYTHM. Its a darn good song. SHowing superior songwriting, singing , and arrangement.

I will be very dissapointed if I dont see you on MTV or hear you on radio soon. It will sure be a waste of talent.

Funk on!
 
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