How Is A Rack Compressor Used w/ PC Recording?

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CudBucket

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I'm planning on recording to my PC (n-Track, M-Audio 2496). I won't be using a mixer. I'm going to the soundcard through an M-Audio DMP3 dual pre. How would a compressor like the Alesis 3630 be used in this case? In other words, I know how to use it for instruments during the recording process but can I use it for mixing/mastering on the PC? If so, how do I connect it? Directly to soundcard?

Thanks.

Dave
 
If you want to use the unit for mixing, (by the way the 3630 is not a very good unit :( ) you hook the main outs of the soundcard to the ins on the compressor and the outs on the compressor to the ins on the soundcard, create a new track(s) and record the new signal.
 
Thanks for the info. Yeah, I've read a bit about it this morning. I'm going to look for a good deal on a dbx 266.
 
Good call on taking the mixer out of the chain when going to the DAW. I think this is the best option for those of us recording only a few tracks at a time.

Daav
 
So this is what my search pulled up when i wanted to know this same question.

basicly what I wanted to do is send a line out into the rack unit, and send the outputs into another channel for my firepod? Would I want to use balanced or unbalanced line cables?
 
CudBucket said:
I'm planning on recording to my PC (n-Track, M-Audio 2496). I won't be using a mixer. I'm going to the soundcard through an M-Audio DMP3 dual pre. How would a compressor like the Alesis 3630 be used in this case? In other words, I know how to use it for instruments during the recording process but can I use it for mixing/mastering on the PC? If so, how do I connect it? Directly to soundcard?

Thanks.

Dave
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You would probably be better off using a software plug in comp., assuming your recording software has one, (most do). For one, it would be better than the 3630, and two, you would eliminate another a/d/a conversion. But otherwise. like Carter mentiond before, thats right on.
 
Aside from the relative evils of going through the additional D/A and A/D conversions to get to and from the compressor (relative to the quality of your soundcard's converters), there is also the issue of latency. The round trip will cause the signal to come back in delayed relative to the rest of the tracks. This is worth dealing with if it's a really good HW compressor, but in this case it's one more reason to consider using SW compressors for mixing, and use the 3630 only for light compression during tracking, when needed or desired.
 
yeah, don't use the 3630. the RNC is way better, and better than the dbx compressor too. given the conversion issue though - i would go with a SW compressor. definitely.
 
CudBucket said:
Thanks for the info. Yeah, I've read a bit about it this morning. I'm going to look for a good deal on a dbx 266.
Click to expand...

Not much better than the 3630 IMHO. I wouldn't bother (I have one and only use in my guitar rack). Look for a used RNC. Much more useful. They run @$100-125 used.
 
Can you get realtime software compressors that inhibit incoming signals from clipping therefore optimising the recorded signal?

You don't need an amazing outboard compressor if all you're using it for is to limit the signal to stop it clipping (as long as it's fairly transparent). You can then use higher quality software compressors to edit to your liking.

I advise using an inexpensive outboard compressor, especially if you're recording bass.
 
you shouldn't rely on compression to stop clipping - good miking and level setting is how you handle that first and foremost.

one of the notorious characteristics of the 3630 is its distinct lack of transparency.
 
pitchfork said:
you shouldn't rely on compression to stop clipping - good miking and level setting is how you handle that first and foremost.

one of the notorious characteristics of the 3630 is its distinct lack of transparency.
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No actually not as simple as that - eg bass;

Bass pickups
Bass Tonality
BASS PLAYER
Bass amp

These all effect the signal level - so what if you've got a bass player who likes to pop and slap - you are saying the gain should be turned right down to stop clipping? That's madness, you then have to compress the hell out of the bass track (which in average is a very week signal now as you have turned the whole thing down for the sake of those spurious slaps and pops) using software to try and get some sort of linear amplitude. It's not about relying upon a compressor it's a fact that you need one especially with the lack of headroom a digital system allows. It's like a guitarist playing a few notes then thrashing a chord. Do you really advise turning the whole signal down to stop clipping? :rolleyes:
 
NOPE! Once it hits the A/D converter and clips, it is clipped! No software can recover that clipping.

If you are tracking 24-bit signals, don't worry about recording too close to 0. You'll be fine if you keep the peaks around -6 or so. Clipping=bad. Headroom=good :D

orson198305 said:
Can you get realtime software compressors that inhibit incoming signals from clipping therefore optimising the recorded signal?
Click to expand...
 
Yep. Clipping=bad.

If you are tracking 24-bits, turning down the incoming signal is the way to do prevent clipping. If you are tracking 16-bits, time to upgrade!

But hey, if you'd rather cram your tracks into a Alesis 3630 before the A/D converters so you can record tracks that peak at -.000000000001 and average -.000000001, hey, it's your music, who am I to stop you? :D

orson198305 said:
Do you really advise turning the whole signal down to stop clipping? :rolleyes:
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The Birds & The Bees

Sorry, your not getting it

A Outbourd compressor is used by all pro engineers and amature engineers that know what they're doing. You use it to OPTIMISE a signal being sent to whatever is recording the signal. The compressor acts like an automatic fader turning down the signal when it rises past a setpoint (or clipping point). Sure one way of stopping clipping is by turning down the gain, a two year old can tell you this. As a studio engineer or amateur recorder your main task is to record the strongest signal possable without clipping - this is done by the hardware compressor. Software compressors cannot do this because your signal has allready entered your DAW. I use software compressors, software multiband compressors etc after i have recorded the source correctly.

Look in any recording book, look on any site they all say the same thing.

You do not need an expensive hardware compressor because you're using it more or less as a limiter. You are not trying to bring the signal out from the mix at this point, all your trying to do is make a good recording. Vocals & Bass NEED to be compressed before entering your DAW or whatever (if you want a descent recording).

If you don't then just "turn it down"
 
orson198305 said:
You do not need an expensive hardware compressor because you're using it more or less as a limiter. You are not trying to bring the signal out from the mix at this point, all your trying to do is make a good recording.
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You DO need a compressor that's audio circuitry is up to par with the rest of your signal chain (it's only is good as it's weakest link)... even if you don't work the compressor hard... the entire audio signal passes thought the compressor circuitry (including the makeup gain amp) which will totally wipe out any sonic benefit of that boutique pre...

orson198305 said:
Vocals & Bass NEED to be compressed before entering your DAW or whatever (if you want a descent recording).
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One man's opinion (OK... a bunch of guys)... But I feel this is a gross overstatement... compress when the material or performance merits it... yes, some vocalist can be all over the place, and you'll want to control those peaks... but a seasoned performer will stay in a good dynamic range... and the less you do to the signal on the way in... the cleaner, and the more option you have later in the mixing stage. Noise is cumulative... there's not a piece of gear out there that doesn't contribute noise... keep you're signal chain as short and sweet as possible while tracking.
 
orson198305 said:
Sorry, your not getting it

Look in any recording book, look on any site they all say the same thing.

Vocals & Bass NEED to be compressed before entering your DAW or whatever (if you want a descent recording).
Click to expand...


This may have had some validity with 16 bit recording, though even then it would have been a controversial blanket statement. With 24 bit in common use, this is simply not true. It's fine if you subscribe to this methodology as your own gospel truth, and there's certainly nothing wrong with using a compressor for tracking vocals and bass, but it is neither necessary in all cases, nor recommended in all cases. With so much dynamic range available so far above the noise floor, there is in most cases no NEED to give up dynamics at the tracking stage.
 
orson198305 said:
No actually not as simple as that - eg bass;

Bass pickups
Bass Tonality
BASS PLAYER
Bass amp

These all effect the signal level - so what if you've got a bass player who likes to pop and slap - you are saying the gain should be turned right down to stop clipping? That's madness, you then have to compress the hell out of the bass track (which in average is a very week signal now as you have turned the whole thing down for the sake of those spurious slaps and pops) using software to try and get some sort of linear amplitude. It's not about relying upon a compressor it's a fact that you need one especially with the lack of headroom a digital system allows. It's like a guitarist playing a few notes then thrashing a chord. Do you really advise turning the whole signal down to stop clipping? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

all of these factors are dealt with when you check your levels. yes, if you have a bass player that slaps at some moments and plays quiet at others, you need to handle that, but pickups, amps, etc are all factors that affect how you mic the amp and set the levels.

like the others, i think you are overstating/overgeneralizing the role of compression, and acting like all people who have a clue use it as you describe - i'm afraid that isn't the case. there are excellent engineers that don't use it at all - careful about being too dogmatic - and careful about compressing the living hell out of your songs!
 
FYI, I am selling my ART Pro VLA for $225 in the "sell your stuff" forum :)
It's not an LA2A etc. but it's a nice optical tube unit in very nice like new shape.
I definitely agree not the 3630!
HSG
 
CudBucket said:
I'm planning on recording to my PC (n-Track, M-Audio 2496). I won't be using a mixer. I'm going to the soundcard through an M-Audio DMP3 dual pre. How would a compressor like the Alesis 3630 be used in this case? In other words, I know how to use it for instruments during the recording process but can I use it for mixing/mastering on the PC? If so, how do I connect it? Directly to soundcard?

Thanks.

Dave
Click to expand...


I use a preamp into compressor into recorder. If the preamp has an insert that is a good spot as well.

BTW My guitar build is coming along great. You'll see pics soon.

Micter
 
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