How important is mic cable?

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rhythmgtr5

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I'm just getting started, so all I have is a sm57 and Plan on getting an audio buddy. How big of an effect will having no name mic cable have on the sound when using such a basic setup? I went to guitar center to buy a mic cable yesterday and they wanted $26 for a 15 ft cable, the monster cable was even more. So I think I'll get some no name stuff unless cable is a critical factor.

Thanks!
 
c7sus said:
Best deal going is the BLUE Kiwi cable from Musicians Friend for $30.00.

Another option is used Monster off Ebay. Keep in mind that monster has lifetime warranty. So if you buy a used cable and it's fucked up, just take it to GC and they'll give you a new one.

Doesn't get any better than that!
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I'm wondering how big of an effect having a cheap no name mic cable will have on the sound of my recordings with such a basic setup?
 
That depends.


Which measn that you need to be on the safe side and have reasonably good cables. You probably won't hear the difference between the $30 BLUE cable and a $15 cable that you got from the guys in your friendly music store. But you MIGHT if you have bad luck.


Note that this is mostly true for mic and guitar cables. For the output of a typical synthesizer to the input of the typical mixer, you'd need cables that are hundreds of feet before they make a difference. But microphones (both the type you sing into and the ones in guitars and basses) are much more sensitive.
 
regebro said:
Note that this is mostly true for mic and guitar cables. For the output of a typical synthesizer to the input of the typical mixer, you'd need cables that are hundreds of feet before they make a difference. But microphones (both the type you sing into and the ones in guitars and basses) are much more sensitive.
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Actually it's the opposite. Unbalanced signals are rated to about 20' and balanced signals are rated to 1000'. Most guitars and synths are unbalanced but a mic signal is balanced. It's pretty common in live sound to have all the mic lines running 100's of feet before they hit the mixer preamps.
 
OK, I'm no expert on analog electronics, so explain to me electrically how one source becomes less sensitive to impedance just because it's balanced, because I don't get it.

This is how I understand it:
If you have a low impedance output, the cable will not make much difference. This is because the output impedance and the cable capacitance will together form a low-pass filter, and the lower the output is, the higher will the cutoff frequency of that filter be. So cheap cables with high impedance will not affect low impedance outputs, like synths.

Guitars and mics often have higher output impedance (although not always). They can have output impedance as high as several tens of thousands of ohms, as compared with the typical line output which will not have much more than a couple of hundreds of ohms. This will lower the frequency cutoff seriously.

Therefore, with high outpit impedance sources, cable is more important. Balancing does not come into this at all. Balancing is a way to reduce noise. Whole different issue.

Thats how I understand it at least. Is it wrong?
 
regebro,

Yes, you basically have it right.

High impedance sources like guitars and some mics can be very sensitive to capacitive, inductive and various noise issues associated with cables - especially when driving relatively low impedance inputs like some tube circuits. Low impedance sources looking into high impedance inputs that require little to no amplification, like a synth driving a mixer line input, are rather insensitive to cable issues.

Many phantom powered condenser mics actually have rather low output impedances. The main cable issue with these mics, however, is noise because the microphone signal is very small and needs to be amplified a great deal. Any noise in the cable will be amplified as well. The noise comes in several forms, but the main culprits in this case are probably radio frequency interference and electrostatic noise caused by the cable insulation. And of course there's always the reliability of the solder joints to consider.

So in a nutshell, the important factors in microphone cables (assuming a reasonable gauge wire) are the solder joints, the shielding, and how well engineered the insulators are. Exotic wire designs and materials like separate high and low frequency wires, hollow tubes, silver cores, etc. are bullshit and a complete waste of money.

Thomas

http://barefootsound.com
 
regebro said:
Balancing does not come into this at all. Balancing is a way to reduce noise. Whole different issue.
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In addition to what Barefoot said it is that ability to cancel noise that makes balanced lines suitable for longer runs. It is very pertinent as to why a balanced mic cable can be 100x longer than an unbalanced line/instrument cable.

Anytime keyboards or instruments need to be fed through a snake they always go through a DI at the stage to convert it to a balanced low Z signal for the long run to the FOH.

Don't ask me to spout numbers and formulas. I don't build the stuff I just use it.
 
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To try to answer your original question, at this point your preamp will have more of an effect on your sound than the cable. Running Monster cable into an Audio Buddy would be an exercise in futility.

I'd recommend getting a good quality but not outrageously priced mic cable, and use the money you save to purchase a better preamp than the Audio Buddy. A Presonus Blue Tube would be an improvement, and there are others, like the VTB-1. The money spent on getting out of the very bottom rung of preamps will be well worth it to you in the long run.
 
I have A/B ed the monster cable against the common homemade belden and switchcraft cable and found no discernable difference.

I hope that answers your question...I think it does.
 
Wow, ain't it nice. We obviously all totally agree. And that on a subject who 99% of the time breaks out in religious fighting!

GROUPHUG!
 
regebro said:
OK, I'm no expert on analog electronics, so explain to me electrically how one source becomes less sensitive to impedance just because it's balanced, because I don't get it.

This is how I understand it:
If you have a low impedance output, the cable will not make much difference. This is because the output impedance and the cable capacitance will together form a low-pass filter, and the lower the output is, the higher will the cutoff frequency of that filter be. So cheap cables with high impedance will not affect low impedance outputs, like synths.

Guitars and mics often have higher output impedance (although not always). They can have output impedance as high as several tens of thousands of ohms, as compared with the typical line output which will not have much more than a couple of hundreds of ohms. This will lower the frequency cutoff seriously.

Therefore, with high outpit impedance sources, cable is more important. Balancing does not come into this at all. Balancing is a way to reduce noise. Whole different issue.

Thats how I understand it at least. Is it wrong?
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Impedance has something to do with it. But, balanced signals reject ANY signal that is present on BOTH input wires. A balanced input only amplifies the difference between the two signals. So, Hum and buzz are not "seen" because these type of signals are always present on both input lines. So. low impedance and a balanced line are the way to go. Unbalanced low impedance is OK (except for hum and buzz) and high impedance is not good for over a couple of feet.
 
Here's my situation. In my new studio I ran Marshall Soundrunner Digital (AES) 110 ohm snakes for mics to connect the rooms. Does this mean I need to make my mic cables (from XLR panels to mics) 110 ohm digital also. I know regular "analog" mic cable can vary from about 50 to 100 ohms depending on brand and quality. I figure I should match resistance and capacitance as closely as possible to the 110 ohm snake. Opinions/Facts?

DD
 
That's digital cable. It has nothing to do with microphone cables at all... You really don't match cable impedances for analog, you get one with as low impedance as possible.

For digital, cables has something called 'characteristic impedance'. I'm not really sure how that works, and why it doesn't change with cable length, but different standards use cabels with different characteristic impedances. So for AEB, you need 110 ohm characteristic impedance cables, for coax ethernet you use 50 ohm coax, and so on.

These cables are not made for analog signals, and in fact seem to have impedances that get very high down in the normal audio ranges.
 
those cheapie cables in Musicians Friend are fine. I have about 10 of them and about 10 of their $5 guitar cables too. I have had them for a good year now, and they have received a fair amount of abuse and haven't had one go bad on me yet.

No..they are not the best cable, but yes...I have run 3 of them for a total of 60' and they worked just fine without picking up stray noises etc. For YOUR application, I would HIGHLY suggest getting these cables. If you upgrade and think your cables are really the weak link, and you'll know...by the static, crackling, or they just don't work!.. then by all means, get something better. Making your own seems to be the best route concerning the dollars to quality ratio.

If you are interested, check my music at
http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/9/1322/album43.shtml

in most (or many) of these tunes I used these cables or something of equal quality.


oh...and regebro... I believe in God...and that is why I probably can get away with using cheap cables!!:D
 
regebro said:
Wow, ain't it nice. We obviously all totally agree. And that on a subject who 99% of the time breaks out in religious fighting!

GROUPHUG!
Click to expand...
I do'no...we'll see how long the sease fire holds.:rolleyes:
Fat chance.:D
Wayne
 
mixmkr said:
oh...and regebro... I believe in God...and that is why I probably can get away with using cheap cables!!:D
Click to expand...

I believe in Physics. That's why *I* get away with it. I understand WHY it works. :D
 
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