How high up do i want my overhead mics?

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chestwick91

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Ok i have an A custom ride, 18/16inch crash and a high hat, that all need to be miced with my overheads....which will be prolly mxl 991, 603s or ecm8000s
i have the standard set up hi hat and 16 in on the left and ride and 18 in on the right...how high up should the be and where for that good rock sound...keep in mind i hit them hard ( not super hard but rock and roll hard)
 
Personally, I prefer them about 6' to 7' above the floor. This puts them about 2' above my cymbals.

In the old days, they would have overheads as high as 14' or so above the kit. I don't see the point in that! At that point, it's a room mic.

I like them close enoughto pick up the kit with punch, but not so close that I'll hit them with a stick. How's that. :D LOL



Tim
 
I think, having them a little higher, takes out the "gong" from cymbals.. and only retains the shimmery high ends??

correct me if im wrong though....
 
I use ECM8000s, and I'm in a corner of an untreated room...so personally I use the 'two stick' rule, with the John Glyns (?) technique. Since they are omni mics, I try to keep as much room sound out as I can, so mine are pretty low. I just find I can't whack the cymbals too hard, or it'll clip and distort a little.
 
I think the general rule of thumb is good room, farther back. Shitty room, closer in. My drums are in the laundry room in the basement, so I'm only about 2' above my cymbals. (that and I don't have mic stands that go too much higher)
 
Experiment with placement until you find the sound that satisfies you.
 
fweyd said:
I think, having them a little higher, takes out the "gong" from cymbals.. and only retains the shimmery high ends??

correct me if im wrong though....
Click to expand...


In all actuallity, a quality, thin cymbal won't really have any "gong-iness" to it. A lot of younger guys buy into the whole "power" cymbals (read as THICK, which means tons of midrange and not as many highs) so in that instance, I guess it would make more sense to have the overheads up higher.

But most pro recordings are made with thinner cymbals, and these days they are even smaller in diameter for pop music. I mean, think about it - alot of studio drummers are using 18" or 20" kicks, and in some instances their biggest tom is 14" in diameter, so they are also using smaller, thinner cymbals to compliment the kit. Joey Heredia is the first to come to mind on the tiny kit - he was the very first one that I can recall using small diameter drums
to record with. I literally laughed when i saw it, because I was thinking it was a joke - it just looked so funny to me.

But the thing is, they close mic really well. The same goes for guitar or bass speakers, smaller speakers have a tighter sound.


For overheads, my general choice is the MXL 603 - it's a cardiod condenser, but it's got a little wider pickup pattern than a lot of other cardioids do, but it's not so wide that it's obnoxious. I just don't like Omni's, but then again, I've never had a room just for recording the drums in - and since I usually had to track at least 2 instruments in the same room, I prefer cardioid condensers.
The room I was in ( I no longer have a home studio for the time being, but it will rise again, I'm moving in a few months - Finally! Yeah!) was completely dead, so there really wqas no need for "room" type of mic's, since the room has no reflections at all. (12" thick 3 layer walls, with carpeting on them.)

Tim
 
well.. perhaps those "younger guys" cant really buy Studio Cymbals and Gigging cymbals seperately ;)

but mine's are about 12 inches above my crashes (18" A Custom Crash and 18" K Custom Dark Crash)

i find that they just get the shimmer from them and not much of those gonginess :)

A lot of metal drummers actually use "Metal" or "Power" Cymbals on recordings.. Daniel Erlandsson(Arch Enemy, Sabian AA-Metal X) Adrian Erlandsson(Cradle of Filth, Sabian AA-MetalX) Joey Jordison(Slipknot, Paiste Rudes)

and of course, Mike Portnoy (Dream Theater, 18-19" HHX Stage Crashes, 18-19" AA Medium Crashes)

if you have gongy, metal, power, or whatever you wanna call it cymbals. just put the overheads a little higher :)
 
I like the 603's for overhead & I also like to use one on my hats. Roll off all the low end & you won't get much bleed. Also don't get your overheads to close to the ceiling cause you can get weird reflections & phasing problems.
 
put your left OH about 2 and 3/4 drumsticks above your snare, and your right about 2 drumsticks above right where your right and floor tom meet, try that.........
 
my room's acoustics are pretty bad, i get a decent sound about 8-12 inches above my cymbals. i have a 7-piece vintage ludwig vistalite kit, which is very loud and boomy. the only muffling/dampening is in the kick drums, no rings on the toms etc. i have a paiste 14" 2002 crash, vintage a. zild, 18", and a paiste 802 16". surpisingly, the 16" 802 sounds really good in recordings even though its the cheapest one. the 14" sounds really good recorded and it's the thinnest one.

so... 8" from your crashes sounds nice.
 
Great question. Judging by the responses, there's no single recipe for OH placement.

I did like the comment about "shitty room, closer mics." Truth be told most of us who are recording at home are probably in poor rooms by normal standards. So closer is better for us.

So far the best configuration in my suburban living room (8' ceilings) is to place the OH mics about six feet from the floor, behind the drum seat, and use the ORTF pattern (KM184 cardioid mics) pointing slightly downward. My goal is to minimize the amount of kick in the OH (that's recorded on a separate mic).

One problem I haven't overcome yet is the excess of cymbals in the OH mix. I'm considering damping the crashes and substituting samples for them. If anyone has some proven suggestions for de-emphasizing the cymbals in the OH mix, let's hear 'em.

Alan
 
ckent said:
If anyone has some proven suggestions for de-emphasizing the cymbals in the OH mix, let's hear 'em.
Click to expand...

1. Tell Animal to stop hitting the cymbols like they hit on his sister (thanks, Mixerman!).

2. Set up the OH's farther from the cymbols than the drums. Either in the over-the-drummer's-head area, or in front of the kit, at resonant-head-to mid-shell level, relating to the toms.

3. Don't use OH's, put condensors on the toms, and close-mic the ride and hat, if needed. There will be cymbol bleed aplenty.

4. EQ the bajeezus out of everything over 1k. Not ideal, but not as bad as you would think.
 
"...in front of the kit, at resonant-head-to mid-shell level, relating to the toms..."

That would make them underheads, wouldn't it?

Alan
 
Pretty much, yup. Unless you're lying down, then they are all overheads.
 
Actually I had thought about maybe aiming the "overheads" toward the toms from the front, and under the cymbals in hopes of getting more tom and less cymbal.

What are the pros & cons of this approach?

Alan

P.S. Note, for all the mics (6) I'm using on the kit, for the most part my mixed drum sound is made up almost entirely of the OH mics and the kick mic. I haven't found the separate tom and snare tracks to be that usable.
 
ckent said:
Actually I had thought about maybe aiming the "overheads" toward the toms from the front, and under the cymbals in hopes of getting more tom and less cymbal.

What are the pros & cons of this approach?
Click to expand...

Pro: It will probably cut back on the cymbols.

Con: You have to really work on placement to avoid some catastrophic phasing.

Other: You will get more kick, and less snare, compared to tradtional overheads, most likely.
 
Ooh, good points. Sounds like the tradeoffs might be more than they're worth. I definitely don't want more kick, and you're right, that would put at least one mic in the line of fire.

Guess I'll stick with the more conventional approach of putting the overheads... overhead. And maybe try some triggers to get the individual drums.

I'm betting that will cause some new, unforeseen complications, of course.

Alan
 
reshp1 said:
I think the general rule of thumb is good room, farther back. Shitty room, closer in. My drums are in the laundry room in the basement, so I'm only about 2' above my cymbals. (that and I don't have mic stands that go too much higher)
Click to expand...

This is so true! Great post Resh!
 
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