How does DAW mixing work?

[warant1]

I've read that if you're using an external controller/mixer paired with your DAW, you have to assign the channels from your DAW to your mixer.

What i'm assuming is happening is...
1. assign specified tracks to external mixer
2. arm tracks for recording
3. Plug monitors into external mixer
4. play the tracks and mix on your external mixer similiar to how you would live, listening to the overall mix thru the monitors? (this is where i'm lost....unless i'm lost earlier in the list then please let me know)

So for example, if I had 10 tracks recorded from a live event, and I imported them to my DAW (Reaper), then I could use my behringer x32 digital console connected via firewire to my computer, assign those ten tracks to ten faders on my mixer, press record, then press play and just mix?

and if that's the case, can I use the effects, eq, and dynamics on my mixer instead of adding all that in my DAW?

I'm new to recording, and I do mainly live events. But the compnay I work for is trying to get into recording so i'm trying to learn all this.

Thanks guys,
let me know if you need more info.

 

[RawDepth]

Your question seems a bit scatter-brained. First, let us clarify what exactly you want to accomplish.

Are you talking about recording a live event (in real time) from the mixer into the DAW? ...Or mixing a previously recorded show from the DAW back out to the mixer?

(From what little bit I know about the Behringer x32 so far, I think it can write multiple raw tracks directly onto a USB thumb drive or external hard drive. Maybe this is where I am not following your question. Is that how you want to use it?)

 

[Ethan Winer]

if I had 10 tracks recorded from a live event, and I imported them to my DAW (Reaper), then I could use my behringer x32 digital console connected via firewire to my computer, assign those ten tracks to ten faders on my mixer, press record, then press play and just mix? and if that's the case, can I use the effects, eq, and dynamics on my mixer instead of adding all that in my DAW?

It's a lot simpler to just mix the tracks in the DAW using various plug-ins. Sending out from a DAW into a mixer just adds extra complication, and also precludes you from recalling a session exactly at a later date to make changes. Once you have the mix sounding as you want in the DAW, render that to a new Wave file.

--Ethan

 

[warant1]

It's a lot simpler to just mix the tracks in the DAW using various plug-ins. Sending out from a DAW into a mixer just adds extra complication, and also precludes you from recalling a session exactly at a later date to make changes. Once you have the mix sounding as you want in the DAW, render that to a new Wave file.

--Ethan

I don't understand how you mix in the DAW. is there a way to mix without having to use the mouse to adjust the faders?

 

[CFox]

I don't understand how you mix in the DAW. is there a way to mix without having to use the mouse to adjust the faders?

2 ways.



1 You use mouse to enter envelope movements for the control you want while session is looping or stopped. Look for and toggle the envelope button to view and activate your options

2 You use your mixer as queried in your OP to record fader movements. These movements are linked and displayed as envelopes in Reaper and can be tweaked. This is done through midi - both ways, into the DAW and back out to the motorized faders



You may prefer the tactile response of a physical mixer but its quite possible that by the time you figure it all out, you could have successfully mixed a few sessions with your mouse.

 

[Ethan Winer]

You use mouse to enter envelope movements for the control you want while session is looping or stopped. Look for and toggle the envelope button to view and activate your options

Yes, this is what I do. I don't even use the Mixer in SONAR because it's a screen hog, and I can do everything needed in the Track view. I use the mouse to set the basic volume and panning for each track, then use nodes to adjust sections that need to be louder or softer. Nodes can also change panning, EQ settings, and anything else.

One big problem with using a physical control surface is that by the time you realize something is too loud or too soft, it needed to be changed half a second earlier. So you're always chasing your tail, and going back to learn the fader moves. Further, nodes let you change very short sections, such as a single syllable that's too loud, or sibilant, or makes a popping P. With envelopes and nodes you play the mix until you notice something is amiss, hit Stop, then draw in the change. Then you go on to the next needed change.

--Ethan

 

[warant1]

Yes, this is what I do. I don't even use the Mixer in SONAR because it's a screen hog, and I can do everything needed in the Track view. I use the mouse to set the basic volume and panning for each track, then use nodes to adjust sections that need to be louder or softer. Nodes can also change panning, EQ settings, and anything else.

One big problem with using a physical control surface is that by the time you realize something is too loud or too soft, it needed to be changed half a second earlier. So you're always chasing your tail, and going back to learn the fader moves. Further, nodes let you change very short sections, such as a single syllable that's too loud, or sibilant, or makes a popping P. With envelopes and nodes you play the mix until you notice something is amiss, hit Stop, then draw in the change. Then you go on to the next needed change.

--Ethan

So would that still be the easiest way if there are alot of changes to be made and not just a few?

 

[Mo Facta]

The X32 is also a control surface so if its set up that way, it'll reflect what's going on in the DAW in real time (in terms of faders, at least). This means there's no "assigning" faders at all, beyond setting it up as a control device. Once that's done, you'll be able to control the DAW faders from the surface without actually routing audio through it.

Control surfaces are wonderful because they get your eyes away from the screen. They force you to use your ears more because your eyes aren't constantly glued to the screen. It's also nice to have a tactile connection to the mix instead of just clicking away with the mouse.

Cheers

 

[Bobbsy]

Yes, this is what I do. I don't even use the Mixer in SONAR because it's a screen hog, and I can do everything needed in the Track view. I use the mouse to set the basic volume and panning for each track, then use nodes to adjust sections that need to be louder or softer. Nodes can also change panning, EQ settings, and anything else.

One big problem with using a physical control surface is that by the time you realize something is too loud or too soft, it needed to be changed half a second earlier. So you're always chasing your tail, and going back to learn the fader moves. Further, nodes let you change very short sections, such as a single syllable that's too loud, or sibilant, or makes a popping P. With envelopes and nodes you play the mix until you notice something is amiss, hit Stop, then draw in the change. Then you go on to the next needed change.

--Ethan

I'll start by saying that I work the same way as Ethan (totally ITB with envelopes) except I use Audition rather than Sonar.

However, there is a halfway house with a control surface. Most DAW software allows you to draw "automation envelopes" (they may call them something different) with your control surface. As Ethan says, you're always chasing your tail since you have to hear the too-loud or too-quiet passage before you can react. However, what you can do is create a rough mix then go back into the DAW and move the recorded fader moves back to where they need to be to catch the whole phrase or passage.

As I said earlier, I don't bother with the "rough mix on faders" and go straight to the envelopes...but everyone is different.

 

[Mo Facta]

As Ethan says, you're always chasing your tail since you have to hear the too-loud or too-quiet passage before you can react.

I'm sorry, I'm not seeing the issue there. Wouldn't it be the same general scenario with drawing it in? I could see more potential issues occurring with the drawing-in approach because you have to make a change and then audition it each time you make one. Without listening to the change in real time, it'll always be kind of a guessing game, wouldn't it?

Using a fader, yes, it's a performance and therefore you have to LISTEN as you write the automation. If you don't get it right, you can always go back and do it again. That, to me, is part of mixing.

Cheers

 

[Bobbsy]

It's just different ways of working. Even when drawing envelopes, I do it by listening to the effect it's having--but with the additional benefit of being able to see on the waveform where a certain part kicks in or gets too low and do the level adjustment at exactly the right time. Yes, by rocking and rolling you can achieve the same effect on a fader--but it takes longer (or, at least, it takes ME longer) that way.

I'd been mixing without any form of automation for a couple of decades when I encountered my first DAW. For live work (which I probably do more of than my home studio) I still do. I thought I'd hate the lack of the tactile response of the faders--but rapidly came to really enjoy the precision of the whole thing. It's just the way I like to work now--but everyone is different.

Anything is better compared to how I used to have to work in the 1970s. Before the days of automation and flying faders, we'd prepare a mix cue sheet--a series of vertical columns on a page, one per track. Every single fader move was drawn in with a note of the time, start level, end level etc. When I first started, you had to do every move right the first time--if you got something wrong 29 minutes into a 30 minute mix you had to go back to the start. By about 75, we've graduated to "rock and roll mixing" where, if you made a mistake, you could go back a few seconds and do an inaudible punch in. That seemed like heaven!

So, with envelopes and flying faders I'm completely spoiled!

 

[Ethan Winer]

So would that still be the easiest way if there are alot of changes to be made and not just a few?

I use envelopes even if there are many changes needed. Often you can minimize the number of envelope nodes by using a limiter. It all depends on context, and people who prefer a control surface aren't wrong. I just find that more hassle than it's worth.

--Ethan

 

[Bristol Posse]

I work with faders on a control surface set to draw the automation into the DAW. If I don't quite get it with the control surface but it's real close I just edit the automation envelope with the mouse, if it's way off I make a quick note of how it should be and do it over
The other benefit for me is I can do lots of things at once with a control surface. For example if I want two acoustic guitar tracks during the build into a chorus to increase in volume, pan from center to either left or right and then mute as soon as the chorus starts, I can do that in one pass with the control surface or I can mouse six separate envelopes one at a time.
In both scenarios I have to listen to the mix afterwards and make tweaks so for me the control surface radically reduces the amount of time I have to spend on a mix which, for me, allows me to be fresher and less caught up in the whole process and don't end up over thinking everything
The final benefit for me with a control surface is I can turn of the computer screens while doing a large portion of the mix which forces me to really listen and not make assumptions based on what I see on the screen.

This works for me but plenty of people do great stuff using just a mouse so depending on the type of mixer you are, YMMV