How do you equilize the seperation ?

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PoorBoyRecordings

PoorBoyRecordings

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I have working and trying to get the sound the people on soundclick and elsewhere get but no luck. I was wondering how you get the perceived sound seperation when you mix and master ? Any help would be greatly appreciated. I have tried every thing and is always comes out the same ... sounds muddy. :confused:
 
A lot of mud comes from fighting frequencies, so the most basic way would be to make sure that things aren't fighting. If one track is promenant in a certain frequency or frequency range, and you don't want to lose that, try to dip that frequency or range on other tracks that don't need it so much. Like Tetris, to fit a piece in, there needs to be space for it to go. Make that space using EQ cuts, and with panning.

Also, the earlier in the process you do these sorts of things the easier it is. If you can record a sound that clicks well with everything else in the first place (not always at first possible I'll admit), it makes life easier.
 
First off, I'm no expert and don't have all the answers for all the different situations, so maybe others can jump in with more advice.

I listened to your song on Soundclick and have a few ideas that might help.

Get the source sounding good, then mic it so it sounds the way you want through headphones or monitors. That's 90% of the challenge right there and it takes a long time to do. There's lots of discussions on micing techniques for guitar amps, acoustics, drums etc, in the mic, guitar and drums sections. I still don't get a good sound out of my acoustic. :(

Once you've recorded everything the way you want, time to eq to make them fit better. This is the part where you take away from the beautifully recorded track you just spent hours trying to obtain. For example, if the low end on the guitar is interfering with the bass, then you have to eq out the low end of the guitar. If the high end of the guitar is interfering with the snare, then you have to eq out the high end of the guitar. Each instrument should have its own sonic space. Allocate a certain part of the freq spectrum to each instrument. If you have mud, EQ out the mud (300hz - 700hz??). If you have sizzle, eq out the high end (5khz - 8khz??).

If parts still overlap and you don't want to notch too much away from a track, then use the stereo field and panning to separate them. A general rule of thumb is to keep the main beat drivers in the middle; Kick, snare, Bass. Also the main melody maker, lead solo's and vox. Everything else can get "thrown" to the sides, but do so judiciously.

On the track I listened to, you have a lot of extraneous noise, mic moving, you moving, something squealing. Gotta avoid that stuff the best you can.

Like I said, I'm no expert, but maybe this will help you to get some separation between your instruments. Hopefully, others can jump in with better advice.

have fun.
 
It's difficult to comment on your mixing attempts without hearing them (where is your Soundclick link?)...but EQ, panning, delay and reverb are the key elements when you get down to mixing a bunch of tracks into a cohesive stereo mix.

You have to really listen to what your mix is doing and then experiment with the elements mentioned above. After awhile you will start to get the hang of it.
 
Add that there are also a few sound traits that combine to suck up large amounts of sonic space. Sustained sounds, full broad bandwidth, and/or lack of points of definition that would otherwise place them easier in the mix at lower level.
Distorted guitar, ‘big warm tone’, chording in a droning style
vs
‘Cleaner, appropriately lean tone, played with definition is a good example in contrast.
 
Thank you.

Chili said:
On the track I listened to, you have a lot of extraneous noise, mic moving, you moving, something squealing. Gotta avoid that stuff the best you can.

Like I said, I'm no expert, but maybe this will help you to get some separation between your instruments. Hopefully, others can jump in with better advice.

have fun.
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Thx Chili. I am deaf in one ear and about 30% deaf in the other and can not hear the squealing or mic movement. That is my biggest problem. I will have to turn up my amp when mixing so I can hear these. I appreciate your advice and help.
 
Thx to everyone.

Thank you everyone for your help. Much appreciated. I'll just keep working at it until I get it right. Yeah, right. I didn't even know what that lip winder ( mean string winder ) was :)
 
poor_boy_record said:
Thx Chili. I am deaf in one ear and about 30% deaf in the other and can not hear the squealing or mic movement. That is my biggest problem. I will have to turn up my amp when mixing so I can hear these. I appreciate your advice and help.
Click to expand...

I would recommend using headphones for that sort of listening if you can. I don't generally like the idea of using headphones in mixing per se because you don't get to hear what it's going to sound like in a room, which is a big part of it. But to listen out for noises and stuff for the purpose of cleaning up individual tracks, it's definitely a good way to go. My hearing's pretty good but I still find that sort of thing a hell of a lot easier to hear if it's being driven directly into my ears.
 
poor_boy_record said:
I am deaf in one ear and about 30% deaf in the other...
Click to expand...

Oh wow...that's tough for mixing.

I use to wonder how one would mix in stereo if you could only hear in one ear.

I came to the conclusion that you would have to sit at a 90 degree angle to your monitors, and be in the center position...and then just check your L/R stuff by moving your position L/R, parallel to the monitors.

Not an easy way to mix!

Good luck!
 
poor_boy_record said:
Thx Chili. I am deaf in one ear and about 30% deaf in the other ...
Click to expand...


Wow man, that's a tough way to enjoy music. :) Maybe do all the tracking yourself and then ask someone to help with the mixdown. They can sit there and tell you what they hear and you make the adjustments. This way you're still learning the art and also learning to compensate for the hearing loss.

You could do Mono only mixes. You would rely on eq, dynamics and reverb/delay/etc for obtaining separation.
 
miroslav said:
Oh wow...that's tough for mixing.

I use to wonder how one would mix in stereo if you could only hear in one ear.

I came to the conclusion that you would have to sit at a 90 degree angle to your monitors, and be in the center position...and then just check your L/R stuff by moving your position L/R, parallel to the monitors.

Not an easy way to mix!

Good luck!
Click to expand...

That is the way I have been trying to do it now and it "Is hard to do" with only one ear. I keep working and trying, and guess I will have to use headphones at least to clean up the individual tracks.
 
Chili said:
Wow man, that's a tough way to enjoy music. :) Maybe do all the tracking yourself and then ask someone to help with the mixdown. They can sit there and tell you what they hear and you make the adjustments. This way you're still learning the art and also learning to compensate for the hearing loss.

You could do Mono only mixes. You would rely on eq, dynamics and reverb/delay/etc for obtaining separation.
Click to expand...

Thx chili. And you are right, it is a tough way to enjoy music. I miss a lot of the sounds and everything from any recording. Since my wife is still with me after 27 years, maybe I can talk her into being my ears to help. Don't know which will be harder, mixing alone or getting my wife to help :) Cheers
 
poor_boy_record said:
That is the way I have been trying to do it now and it "Is hard to do" with only one ear. I keep working and trying, and guess I will have to use headphones at least to clean up the individual tracks.
Click to expand...

Yeah...I was just assuming what might be a "best case" approach to one-ear mixing, but you obviously are having to deal with it. :(

Here's one idea...
Since you can't change your hearing...you can mix "visually" for some things.
What I mean is...as much as I use my ears when I pan tracks, there is also a good deal of visualizing..."seeing" the position of the tracks/instruments in the L---R soundstage.
Also, if you get into a DAW, there are a lot of plugs/apps that provide great visual displays of what your sounds are doing...analysis of the EQ, level, etc...so those things could help you at least get things fairly well into the ballpark, and then maybe find a couple of people with good understanding of what things should sound like and have them provide you a final, objective listen.

It might take some trial and error, but I think after awhile you will develop an SOP that will give you good stereo mixes even though you are only hearing with one ear. You just have to approach things a little differently because of your difficulty.

Post up links to your ongoing efforts...I'm sure folks will provide you with plenty of input to get you pointed in the right direction.

Best of luck to you!
 
poor_boy_record,

Don't get discouraged , Have you ever noticed how some guys , like some famous producers are still working in this industry even though they are getting on in the years and have gray hair ???

It is never said out loud , but some of these legends have to be a liitle less endowed in the physical aspect of there hearing as they were at a younger age ......

There is something they have in there pocket that still seperates them from the pack .... They don't just hear ; they listen!! They have trained themselves to be able to break down the sonic soup that is a mix , and they use this to great effect, regardless of some degradation of the actuall physical hearing mechanism , and use there trained mind to listen.



You can do allot with perseverence , and of course you can always get feedback from others ( which is something that should be happening anyways !!)


These articles were helpfull to me . Also don't forget that you can manage some of the clutter that occurs in a mix by pushing things left and right appart from each other and from front to rear. Look up some stuff on masking too , do your homework ...



http://www.homerecordingconnection.com/news.php?action=view_story&id=154


http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb09/articles/deepspace.htm


http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar09/articles/stereotechnique.htm


Cheers:D
 
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flatfinger said:
poor_boy_record,

Don't get discouraged , Have you ever noticed how some guys , like some famous producers are still working in this industry even though they are getting on in the years and have gray hair ???

It is never said out loud , but some of these legends have to be a liitle less endowed in the physical aspect of there hearing as they were at a younger age ......

There is something they have in there pocket that still seperates them from the pack .... They don't just hear ; they listen!! They have trained themselves to be able to break down the sonic soup that is a mix , and they use this to great effect, regardless of some degradation of the actuall physical hearing mechanism , and use there trained mind to listen.
Click to expand...


So true flatfinger. But I bet they started at a lot earlier age than I. I mean I just started messing with learning to record a bit about a year ago at the age of 56 when I had already lost the hearing in my right ear. So now, when I don't understand something or cannot find anything on this board to help, I ask a question. The only dumb question is the question some one "does not ask" when help needed.

I understand what you are saying, and hopefully you understand what I am saying.

Cheers,:rolleyes:
 
BTW flatfinger, thx for the mag articles. Very informative. Thx.
 
poor_boy_record said:
But I bet they started at a lot earlier age than I. I mean I just started messing with learning to record a bit about a year ago at the age of 56 when I had already lost the hearing in my right ear.
Click to expand...
I'm not advocating this, just using it as an analogy:

The great actor Sterling Hayden did not start smoking pot until he was 65. But I'll bet he got more buzzed than those cats who smoked it since they were kids. ;) :D.

Music is a drug, even to those hearing impaired. As long as you can enjoy it, you can work it.

G.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
Music is a drug, even to those hearing impaired. As long as you can enjoy it, you can work it.

G.
Click to expand...

Could have been said better, G. Once a musician always a musician ... it's in the blood. And, don't know about eveyone else, but for me, the art of tryining to learn to record is the same :D
 
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