How do you constructively criticize someone better than you?

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Brad

Brad

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Scenario: you have the opportunity to collaborate with someone who is a much better songwriter than you. Your strengths are production and a modern, younger approach to music and songwriting. His strength has already been stated - he writes GREAT tunes, but he seems to be caught in a time warp. He writes stuff that sounds like Peter, Paul & Mary or Simon & Garfunkel would cut (30 - 35 years ago).

Anyway, there are possibilities for a paying gig with this guy, but I think that will only pan out if the songs are brought up to date. I don't know this guy very well and I don't want to insult him. Should I maybe take some of his tunes and re-work them into a modern format and then present them to him, and kind of say "What d'ya think?" or should I just flat out tell him to get his head out of the late 60's / early 70's? I mean, I love that music as much as the next guy, but that is not gonna do well right now in my opinion. Who knows? Is old, acoustic/vocal folk making a comeback?

Any ideas? Anyone been in a similar situation?

Brad
 
Brad said:
Is old, acoustic/vocal folk making a comeback?

Brad
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i believe that has already happened and is already "over" again... i would spice them up and say whaddya think? then when he says "no way" tell him flat out that that sort of thing is a little old, but it won't take away any of of his creative integrity by slapping a little distortion on the guitar and rigging up some funky beats on the 'ol 808.....but if he don't like that either bitchslap his ass back to 1969, i mean youv'e got some integrity to maintain...
 
In some realms , the acoustic folk music never went away. There are so many styles of music that exist that Im propabably not ware of because I don't get out of my box much. Zappa and the Greatful Dead are great bands, their music is dated to a certain time and a certain listener. I would never tell someone that is involved in a different genre than mine that they need to change. If its his thing, them let him have it, you keep doing what your doing musically. Remember, if he is paying for the ticket, just go along for the ride. Keep offering up different ideas as casually as possible, try not make it obvious either. Sooner or later It will have an effect on him to some level. It may not be top 40, but someone will always like it.

Peace,
Dennis
 
Brad, I think I missed something in this scenario. Is this a collaboration of writing, or are you performing songs he has already written? If it's a collaboration, then you have every right to expect that the songs will take on some aspect of your own style, but without completely eliminating your partner's own. If you are playing his material, your role becomes less defined IMHO. Sure, you can still make suggestions and possibly present options or alternatives, but in the end they're his songs. Does that make sense? Maybe you could tell us a little more about your working arrangement.
 
Brad,

It depends on what type of gig this in, i.e. are you playing with him, or do you both have your own sets?

If you're playing together, will you both be doing your own songs? If that's the case, let him do what he does and you do what you do.

If you're both going to be singing songs together, then I know how you feel about participating in something that's not you. Don't do it.

Either way, if I were you, I'd just let him keep writing like he does. Everybody has an ego, and if he's established, you'll most likely piss him off.

However, there are always two sides and sometimes more. It's possible that if you, like you said, take some of his tunes and tweak them, offer them to him with a choose or lose option, you'll find your answer.

Good luck.

Bodhisan
 
"Anyway, there are possibilities for a paying gig with this guy, but I think that will only pan out if the songs are brought up to date. "

I'd say play a couple of gigs with him and see how it's received. Since you're in LA, where the audiences are very forgiving (NOT!), if he's going down in flames you'll know pretty soon. THEN suggest a revamp of the material - he may be more receptive.

Good luck!

Bob
 
Actually, I like BB's response. Let the audience decide, then you don't have to hold the smokin' gun.

Bodhisan
 
Actually, it wouldn't be a performing gig - we might have the opportunity to work on a movie underscore/soundtrack together. Chances are, it would end up being something like me working on the underscore, and him coming up with actual songs - with me maybe helping out in the song area. Like I said, I haven't worked with this guy before - I just know that our writing styles are way different - his better, but old. I guess I am just trying to avoid an uncomfortable situation. Who knows it may work - the movie has a futuristic edge. I'll put a modern underscore to it and he can write Peter Paul and Mary songs. It just might work.

Thanks for the responses!

Brad
 
Why do you think he writes better songs than you? Especially if it is a different style than what you do. There could be legions of people who would like your songs.

There are multi-platinum album selling bands that I think write absolutely crappy songs. And then there are bands that are writing and producing awesome material and yet only sell a few thousand copies of their albums.

In the words of YES's Jon Anderson, "Write what [you] like and feels right, and then hope somebody else likes it."

-c
 
Just do the gigs to the best of your ability. Do your best to make it work, and if it don't go over, at least you can hold your head up and say "later dude.... If you have gigs, somebody will be listening and never forget that you are never judged by someone else's performance. Every gig I ever played led to another. Some of the bands I've been in really sucked but people always said something like " yeah but the lead player was hot" It's kept me gigging for over 40 years and got me hooked up with some of the best in the country, if not the world. By the way. Nobody is better than you. Live that way and play that way
chazba
 
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