grn
Well-known member
How is the quality itself on these drums? Is this a good sound or should I do something different? Any help is appreciated.
Blue Bear Sound
New member
Everything sounds quite muddy..... sounds like you're pushing levels quite a bit -- distortion on the kick, toms and possibly the overheads. Kind of boxy room sound too - lacks presence and definition.
Plus, why is the mix leaning completely to the left?
Pay attention to mic selection and placement, and watch the levels on your pres -- drums have a lot of fast transients that cause distortion long before you could see them on meters.
Plus, why is the mix leaning completely to the left?
Pay attention to mic selection and placement, and watch the levels on your pres -- drums have a lot of fast transients that cause distortion long before you could see them on meters.
grn
Well-known member
what can I do to improve this one:
grn
Well-known member
oh yeah, mix is on the left in the first one because I was going for that early beatles sound where drums and bass were hard left, guitars hard right, and vocals center and harmonies to the right slightly.
Blue Bear Sound
New member
You do realize that that was a mistake on the mastering engineers part back then... George Martin didn't intend for that panning..........grn said:
T
Thorguitarist
New member
Blue the studio you got looks friggen awesome!! I want in ... The sound clips on your site are awesome... But i guess they are supposed to be 
C
Cloneboy Studio
.
This is not meant as an insult but there are a lot of areas these drums could use improvement. For one it is hard to gauge because the playing is so inaccurate and sloppy.
The kick is too boomy--needs major 200-400hz cut and probably some highpass filtering.
Snare is really boxy and thin.
Overheads/cymbals seem to be missing. There's no clarity whatsoever.
Toms sound very garage.
Overall I think you need to work on mic placement--make sure your overheads sound great before putting in any close mics. Learn to position the mics in there to get a good recorded sound off the kit. Record good drummers playing quality drumkits in good rooms (half the "secret" of good drum sounds). Learn to use and abuse EQ and compression because most "pro" sounding drums depend on this.
And keep working at it. Drums are the trickiest thing to get a good sound on.
The kick is too boomy--needs major 200-400hz cut and probably some highpass filtering.
Snare is really boxy and thin.
Overheads/cymbals seem to be missing. There's no clarity whatsoever.
Toms sound very garage.
Overall I think you need to work on mic placement--make sure your overheads sound great before putting in any close mics. Learn to position the mics in there to get a good recorded sound off the kit. Record good drummers playing quality drumkits in good rooms (half the "secret" of good drum sounds). Learn to use and abuse EQ and compression because most "pro" sounding drums depend on this.
And keep working at it. Drums are the trickiest thing to get a good sound on.
grn
Well-known member
you're all being very vague and it's not helping me. I have a shure sm57 on kick and a sp b1 on snare, that's it... there are no overheads. I will have oktava's to use as overheads as soon as I get those XLR cords in the mail. until then I'm stuck with this setup. what specifically can I do to a) the room, b) the mic placement (it's standard placement), c) how do I do that with EQ in cool edit? pick out a certain frequency and get rid of it... and why would I do that? thanks.
grn
Well-known member
also, it's all very well and good to say go record good drummers with good kits. but we don't all have access to either of those.
grn
Well-known member
well this is very frustrating. here is a third clip. tell me if this is ANY improvement. please. clip is short and to the point.
would this be acceptable to a normal listening audience with no background in recording? and also there will be a better drummer on the kit. guitars and vocals will be on the real tracks too. is this probably the best I can do with this setup? is this acceptable for even radio airplay (ie college and community)?
would this be acceptable to a normal listening audience with no background in recording? and also there will be a better drummer on the kit. guitars and vocals will be on the real tracks too. is this probably the best I can do with this setup? is this acceptable for even radio airplay (ie college and community)?
C
Cloneboy Studio
.
grn said:
Well what else can we really do or say? Honestly, if you want pro results you should HIRE A PRO.
grn said:
Recording drums without overheads is a major mistake. Don't bother to record. Wait until you at least have overhead mics.
grn said:
a.) The room: well, acoustics are a lengthy subject that aren't 100% agreed upon. Suffice to say a good room sounds good and a bad one doesn't. In general you can look for either a live sounding room or a dead sounding one, but in my experience the best drum sounds come from live rooms with reflective floors and walls, high ceilings, carefully placed diffusion and sound absorption that are in a certain uneven length/width ratio.
b.) Mic placement: there is no such thing as "standard placement" on drums so can you be any more vague?
The heart and soul of a drum sound is the OVERHEADS. I cannot emphasize this any more than this--OVERHEADS, OVERHEADS, OVERHEADS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! After overheads make sure you have something on the kick, and I wouldn't recommend a SM57 either (probably most of the source of the boxiness on the early kick).c.) EQ: you don't know how to operate the EQ and don't understand how/why you should even bother? God help you. Actually god help us for trying to help you.
Honestly: get some more education on recording and audio before spending another dime. YOU ARE NOT READY TO RECORD YET.
It's a tough world and this will probably tick you off, but it's the truth and with the best intentions behind it. Reading some books on audio won't cost you thousands of dollars--but purchasing equipment before you're ready for it will.
Best of luck.
C
Cloneboy Studio
.
grn said:
GIGO
Garbage in = garbage out
C
Cloneboy Studio
.
grn said:
There is some improvement--not as boxy as before, but this is still Fisher Price city... total amature hour.
Do this: play your drums next to "The Crunge" by Led Zeppelin or any other professional album and compare yours to theirs. Does it sound acceptable now? You're ears are not decieving you.
It still sucks. It's unacceptable man.
Without overheads *I* couldn't make it acceptable. Well, maybe, but it would involve a lot of irritation and compression trying to bring out what little of the sizzle leaked into the dynamics and even then it would be a crapshoot.
Keep working at it. Don't try to lie to yourself when you know that it's no good; instead work at making the next thing better. AND KNOW MORE ABOUT AUDIO! The number one reason around here people's stuff sounds bad is lack of knowledge.
grn
Well-known member
the beatles used one microphone when they first started recording drums. I actually was just comparing it to other professional sounds (albeit they were mp3s so some things may have been lost), but they sounded acceptable to me. they don't sound like a professional, high-quality studio, but they sound like what I was going for - ie weezer, beatles... also... the led zeppelin sound on drums was extremely unique because of jon bonham... you can't ever replicate that. perhaps I could mic the snare between the two toms? I need better ideas than upgrade equipment because... this is what I have to work with. =(
grn
Well-known member
at least I'm not using a radio shack mic...
what do you think of this:
http://www.midiwarehouse.com/12001.asp
what do you think of this:
http://www.midiwarehouse.com/12001.asp
Last edited:
C
Cloneboy Studio
.
grn said:
Yeah, over 40 ****YEARS*** ago. Before records were even made standard to be in stereo.
These days it just doesn't cut it.
grn said:
To untrained ears maybe they do sound comparable. But, they lack the solid punch and clarity of Weezer drums, and the high end sparkle of Ringo's drums.
grn said:
Ever hear "Lonely is the Night" by Billy Squire? Sounds just like Bohnam jumped in the band. How about Kingdom Come from the late 80's? Their drums sounded like Bohnam. What about Whitesnake's "Still of the Night"? Another good Zeppelin drum clone.
It can be done.
grn said:
ARGHHHH!!!
*DUDE JUST GET SOME OVERHEADS ON THE KIT*
Overheads capture the toms, hat, snare, cymbals... the whole kit! If you have some good sounding overheads you're all set. A pair of used AKG C2000's will only set you back about 300 bucks and sound very good.
Trust me--you can mic a kit in 3 mics--2 overheads and a kick mic--if you have decent mics (condenser overheads) and a good dynamic on the kick (RE20, SM7, D112).
Close miking is, IMHO, to support the sound of the overhead and room mics--which are about 75% of the sound of your kit.
When you finally figure out the tricks to drums you'll realize it's not that hard. Good drummer, good kit, decent mics, decent mixer, decent room, and smart mic placement. Just add gobs of EQ and compression and you're there.
Blue Bear Sound
New member
Holy crap -- you guys have the patience of a Saint!!! I stopped reading at the "no overheads" part!!!!!!!!! 
grn
Well-known member
*sigh*... ok... you guys have worn me down. sorry I'm such an amateur. amateur does mean "to love" though. thank you for your patience. I will pick up two more mic cables tomorrow (good ones). I have a shure sm57, a sp b1, and two oktava mk012's... if I put the 57 on the kick, the b1 on the snare and the oktava 012's as overheads, do you think I could get *DECENT* sound? ;(
or how should I adjust that setup? it would be nice if I didn't have to buy completely new mics.
or how should I adjust that setup? it would be nice if I didn't have to buy completely new mics.
C
Cloneboy Studio
.
grn said:
It should be the start of okay.
I'd put the SM57 on the snare myself.
Honestly you can get a fairly good drum sound using a fairly inexpensive set of mics:
AKG C2000 x2 overheads (350)
AKG D112 kick (180)
SM57 x4 snare & toms (240)
If you want to get fancy:
AKG C1000 high hat (180)
AKG C2000 x2 room mics (350 more)
I'll attempt not to be vague, but here's something to get the old brain workin'... it's one of the ways you can get a good drum sound after you've gotten an ok recording.
Place the overheads in a way that sounds GREAT--keep adjusting them until they are good. Honestly they should be about 2-3' above the cymbals or about 6-8' off the ground; pointing them at the snare is a good trick to do, but there are MANY ways to position overhead mics: pointing at snare, directly over cymbals L/R, over cymbals but crossing center of drumkit (i.e. L mic more forward, R mic more over low tom), behind the drummer somewhat towards the cymbals/front of kit, over drummers' head point outward, adding a third overhead over the snare ran mono. etc...
Make sure to get a clean signal no greater than -6db going to your digital recorder (assuming you're using digital). Optimize your gain structure, make sure you are getting max headroom and so on. Dedicate a track for each microphone so you can process it later.
Once you got it recorded a little 100hz on the kick, suck out some 200-400hz, add a little 2.5khz or 4khz, hit it with a 4:1 compressor with about 25ms of attack and the kick should be rocking. Hit up the snare with some 100hz, cut a little 600hz maybe, add some 8-10khz for crack and you should be good. Make two copies of the overheads and leave one fairly unadulterated except for a mild, wide EQ boost around 12khz-16khz to bring out some air on the cymbals; the other set compress it like 8:1 and mix it in at low level.
If you want a more 'live' sounding kit and your overhead "room" bofo trick didn't work with the compressor try adding some nice reverb *before* the compressor. BOOM! Add a little bit of the same reverb to the overheads... like 4% wet/96% dry ratio, and maybe 20% wet on the snare with about 75ms pre-delay.
You should be approaching an acceptable drum sound at this point. If things aren't kick enough arse try mixing down the entire drumkit to a seperate stereo track and compressing the shit out of that... like 10:1... and mix it in there about 10db lower than the main drums.