How Do I Troubleshoot This?

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Doctor Varney

Cave dwelling Luddite
My AMD Quad core system which I use for general duties sometimes reboots by itself and there is a flash of a blue screen.

It used to do this all the time, then it stopped completely. I had trouble free service for about 3 months. Never found out what was causing it and similarly, without any warning (or reason) the problem ceased and the machine ran normally.

Just lately, I'll be doing something and suddenly this momentary flash of blue background with white text, then the machine is off. Because it is startling and annoying I can't bring myself to put any serious labour into a project. Sometimes if I go away and come back, I'm seeing the Windows login screen, which tells me it's rebooted while I've been out of the room. It's impossible to give your full attention to a task and not lose creativity with the thought it could happen at any moment gnawing at the back of your mind.

I'd like to learn how to fix it but I have no idea where to start even thinking it through. All good quality parts, put together by a friend who successfully builds his own large gaming rigs - and believe me, he's very happy with their performance. But I have no handle on the cause because the writing on the screen is not only in a completely foreign language but not even there long enough to actually read it, if I could.

The problem is, that I can't ever say "When I'm doing this, this happens..." because it is completely random. There's no pattern which tells me it could be one part or another.

The skillsets I use day to day do not necessarily include computer use, so have scant understanding of their inner workings. Although I do have strong digital usage skills, I don't know how to repair the equipment. I could learn but I'm not sure how one learns from non-easily repeatable phenomena. For instance, if you came over to look at it, we can safely bet the offending problem will not manifest until you're out of the room or left the premises altogether. This seems to be my experience of computers in general over a course of 20 years - and it doesn't seem to be getting any better with new advances. In that time I have had a total of three machines turning off at random. On two occasions, technicians have had them in overnight or even several days running solidly, 24/7 and cannot replicate the problem and as soon as I get them home, the situation occurs almost immediately. In my experience, not enough people who build and sell computers actually know how to fix them. I watch them swapping out parts and messing around with settings but to me, it looks like they are just taking shots in the dark, until something responds.

On one occasion, one guy was able to discern it was a motherboard problem. Sadly, by then, it was not easy to get a replacement due to advances - but I believe the processor was intact.

Sometimes this system starts up with a hideous whirring, clanking noise which dies down during the loading sequence. It only happens once in a while. I can't demonstrate this to my friend, because it won't perform this trick to order.

I don't know if these behaviours are related - the noises and the power-downs. I'm not even sure of what questions to ask any more. Does anyone have any experience and suggestions?
 
Dude......
Long shot, but could this be anything to do with your household power? Maybe little dips or something?

Three machines BSODing, or turning off at random is just too much.
 
Steenamaroo said:
Dude......
Long shot, but could this be anything to do with your household power? Maybe little dips or something?

Three machines BSODing, or turning off at random is just too much.
Click to expand...

In different houses, over a course of 15 years? No, I don't think so...

I called someone out from the electricity board to run tests some years ago for the current property. They found nothing. I have always used circuit protectors on all my machines.

The last time this occurred, with another machine, it turned out to be something wrong with the motherboard.
 
This might account for a lot.

What is the Average life of an Average Desktop computer? - CNET Desktops Forums

I typically expect more than 5 years for a large spend like this. I have tools and machinery in my workshop which range from 10-20 years old still in perfect working order. Some of the things I use are even older than me. On reflection, it might appear my mindset and expectations do not allow for happiness and disposable technology to co-exist.
 
It could....
Of course I've had computers that kept kicking until they were 10-15 years old. I've also had ones that crapped out after a few years and needed something replaced.

It's the hassle of finding out which part failed that can be time consuming and costly.


With something like this I totally rely on spare parts.
Test ram = free. Test hard drives = free.
Swap PSU relies on having a spare, usually.

They are three things that I'd definitely want to rule out in any odd behaviour scenario.
 
I don't have to tell you how much I hate modern technology (you've heard it all before) but I've recently given up smoking and got into the world of personal atomisers. Right from the get go, I have reconciled myself with predictions of equipment life and am therefore able to set up my expectations (and plans) accordingly. When I first saw a home computer, I did not think in terms of more than one day ahead. Of course, there is a difference in cost but the principle is the same. Batteries wear out and wicks and coils need replacing. Mods have a 2 year life expectancy. I witnessed my father suffer in the same way with cars, throughout my own childhood, after he sold his vintage Riley.

5 years. I've had this machine less than 12 months and it was probably already 3 years old.
 
Doc, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but . . . ;)

There could be a number of things going on with your systems:

1. From some of your other posts about problems you're experiencing, my guess is that your machines are infected with malware. To protect against malware requires four things:
- A good anti-virus program. I used to recommend Microsoft Security Essentials because its effective, has a small footprint and, best of all, its free. However, two months ago, three of my machines became infected, after 30+ years of safe and non-corrupted home computing. I did a lot to try to clean these machines: I scanned with a variety of products in safe mode, I booted from a CD and scanned from there, I checked for root kits, I examined the registry for hidden hives, etc. I wound deleting the partitions on all of the infected machines and re-installing the OS from scratch.
- A software firewall on each computer. This will alert you to inbound and outbound traffic that you didn't authorize and will allow you to block it (though, if it's outbound, it's already too late -- you're infected).
- A hardware firewall on a router that provides stateful packet inspection. I don't trust the firmware on ANY home router. I recommend replacing it with dd-wrt, which is free and open source.
- Situational awareness. To be truly safe, you have to understand all the different ways malware can get on your computer. For example, how many times have you visited a website known to you to be safe and legitimate, and a window opens up that says, "Your Adobe Flashplayer is out-of-date and needs to be updated. Click "Update" to install the latest version."? You click on Update and are taken to a site that looks like Adobe's, displays an Adobe URL in the address bar, and installs what sure looks like Flash. The only problem is that the legitimate website you visited was hacked, and the Flash player that you've just installed isn't from Adobe, but is malware from a hacker site. I have this discussion with my wife all the time. She is, virtually, a Luddite and, to make it worse, she often visits Chinese websites (she's Chinese). I'm pretty sure that's what infected my system -- she uses one of the LAN machines, got it infected and it, in turn, infected other computers on the LAN.

2. Hardware aging. Capacitors have a limited life and, when they fail, will take down a machine. Higher quality caps will last longer, but none liver forever. Heat exacerbates the problem. If you keep your computers clean inside -- vacuum the vents, blow out the dust inside on a periodic basis, and check your fan speeds and internal temperature -- your computers will last longer, but none will live forever. The first sign of heat-related failure is intermittent crashing or freezing; as you run your computer, it heats up enough to place a component in failure mode. You turn it off and reboot, enough time has passed to allow the failing component to cool off, so the computer boots and works fine for a while. Then it heats up and the cycle repeats. Note, too, that your computer will run cooler if you're just surfing the web or doing light word processing than it will if you're doing something CPU-intensive, e.g. mixing down a multi-track session.

3. BIOS battery failure. This happens more often than people realize. All motherboards have a battery that powers the BIOS. These are the coin-shaped batteries you find in hearing aids (though usually larger). These can last a long time -- 5 years or more -- but when they go, the BIOS will produce a checksum error that keep the computer from booting, and can also result in a BSOD (Blue Screen of Death) or freeze. They're cheap and easy to replace. I have a few thin clients on my system that I acquired roughly at the same time and are all about 4 or 5 years old. Recently, they started failing, one-by-one. The cause was the motherboard battery. I just went down to the hardware and replaced them and now everything is fine again.

BTW, congrats on quitting smoking. I need to do that. :)
 
Blimey, PT! Yes, I did install *that* Flash Player update! So that would explain a lot.

Also thank you for the other advice - especially the battery. The words 'Checksum Error' seem familiar (don't count on it) but I'm sure I've seen it on one of my BSODs!

Dropped into my local computer store today for a chat (another friend). He also asked me how often I clean out the case, too.

Yes, I haven't had a fag for three weeks. These things do work and provide me with yet another gadget obsession - all for a good cause! :D
 
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