How do I soundproof room for lower cost.

[r1chard]

I have done a little research on this subject but I would like to know from someone who has experience doing this and with the products I am contemplating using. Realize this is not a pro studio, it is for my hobby. I may have some friends come over and do some recording of live instruments if it works out. I am trying to get away without increasing cost to finish basement too much basically on a lower budget. This is what I have to work with. I designed the basement without studio in mind, now this is an afterthought and I don't want to change plans with the city. The size is a little smaller than I origionally though, 14x16 plus the little hall
Here is the room below. All walls are floating according to code. Walls A and B are concrete covered with fiberglass insulation and plastic cover. Wall C is a double wall with space to but another layer of sheet rock or something.

Walls 1 2 and 3 enclose the studio room where I would plan to do vocal work and would really be important to keep quiet. 2 bathrooms are on the other side of 3. So now I have some questions.

Below is wall C, what should I put between he walls if anything?

Below is wall A and B. They are concrete with fiberglass with plastic sheath. There is a space between the wall and the bat. Should I put something behind there and what? How do I quiet water, gas and duct noise?

Below is the ceiling, should I use batt insulation? Double 5/8s sheetrock? Zchannel or resiant channel to suspend the ceiling?

So further questioning. To everything there is a point of deminishing returns. I am trying to reduce outside sound levels, Being underground and next to dirt helps. I am wondering, Is it better to double the drywalls on walls A,B and C or suspend it using resilient channel. The drywaller has done this and knows how to make sure the screws do not go directly into stud but channel only and that the ceiling drywall does not touch a wall drywall, only drywall tape. Any suggestions would be helpful from someone who has done this before and has used different products or knows which are better. Thanks in advance.

What are some economical ways of reducing sound with little money. How do I make sure the small vocal room is best insulated from sound, how to fix the door and what type of door to use. I am going to double pane glass window, any thoughts on the best way to do that? I found some rectangular glass tables at a furnature store that had broken legs or were extras, they were extra thick and identical, I was thinking about using them, Any thoughts?

 

[miroslav]

The size is a little smaller than I origionally though, 14x16 plus the little hall...

I know you already have the framing mostly done...but man, the space you've allotted for your control/mixing room is going to suck big time!

The best thing you could do is remove the front wall from that room...then push the door/wall of the hall back so that it is even with Wall 3 of your current control room space...and give yourself one, large room.

Then center the mix position on the opposite side (where the drums are) and put the mix position symmetrically in the middle of that wall, facing the wall....put your instruments on the opposite side corneners, where your doors will be. If you do it right, you can have just one door in the studio space...not three.

Forget all that small glass/booth stuff...you will not get good results going that route in that space...IMHO.

 

[r1chard]

I know you already have the framing mostly done...but man, the space you've allotted for your control/mixing room is going to suck big time!

The best thing you could do is remove the front wall from that room...then push the door/wall of the hall back so that it is even with Wall 3 of your current control room space...and give yourself one, large room.
I cannot do that, see the new drawing, there is a funace/ water room door there. It is the only way to get in and it is under the stairs. I did not want an adjacent room wall next to the untility room.

Then center the mix position on the opposite side (where the drums are) and put the mix position symmetrically in the middle of that wall, facing the wall....put your instruments on the opposite side corneners, where your doors will be. If you do it right, you can have just one door in the studio space...not three.

I have not considered this, where would the vocal room be? The mix room would double duty as the vocal room. How would you have a vocal room in your suggestions.?

Forget all that small glass/booth stuff...you will not get good results going that route in that space...IMHO.

The original room was 5x7. I have changed it so it is now 5x11. Do you think this would be better? See below.

For a reference, one of my bathrooms is 5x14 and it would seem to have plenty of room even taking out the tub. The counter is 2ft with 3 foot behind it. A friend has a set up like this using 5 feet in his garage with window. I thought it worked fine.

But if I am just looking for one big room, I already have one. I considered turning this 20x20 ft space into a recording studio, the problem is no vocal booth. The outside walls are 2x6 and well insulated and the house is stucco which makes it pretty quiet. (In fact the bedroom I am using right now is upstairs and very quiet, I just close myself into the 5x7 walk in closet and I have no problems recording vocals)The only possible problem with the 20x20 room is the ceiling is cathedral and goes over 11 feet high. I can move my media room to the basement since to a smaller room where the ceilings are 9 ft, I can mount the projector somewhere else. Part of the point of finishing the basement was so I could have a place to record but if you really think that one big room is the way to go, I could change my mind and move upstairs.

Thanks for your suggestion miroslav but I am still not convinced (but may reconsider)of moving up stairs to the one room concept without a vocal booth. Do you record vocals in the middle of a big room such as the one you are suggesting? miroslav Realize that I am not a pro, I am not going to rent out my space, it is kind a pet project to get me back into music and it is only a hobby. I would like the be able to easily convert the house back to living space should I decide to move( though unlikely, I like to keep my options open)

Still has anyone had any experience with z channel or resiliant channel to hand dry wall and how does it compare to using two sheets of say 5/8ths sheet rock? Other suggetions about the original post?

 

[meraj]

If i were u , for getting a bigger control room i would do this: omit the red lined walls , connect wall 1 to wall 5, make a wall 6, and move the bathrooms door to the other side.

 

[r1chard]

If i were u , for getting a bigger control room i would do this: omit the red lined walls , connect wall 1 to wall 5, make a wall 6, and move the bathrooms door to the other side.

Although a great idea meraj, and I would do it with no problem, two issues. The reason for two bathrooms, one for the basement and one dedicated to that bedroom. I possibly would consider changing the door to as you said but the big problem is that there is a utility room and only one entrance and it must have luvered doors to allow air in. Hopefully the below picture helps you understand why I cannot do this.

 

[miroslav]

It's not just a question of fitting your gear in the room...it's really about the acoustics and being able to mix in there.

A 5 foot room just ain't gonna work...no matter how long it is.

And I wouldn't get to concerned about having a vocal booth either. A small booth is just not a good place to do vocals...unless you're just going to record spoken-word and you want it super dead.

One large room, properly treated for acoustics, not just soundproofing (as they are two different things) will sound good and work good for most everything. Lots of small/home/project studios just go with the one-room approach, especially when the studio is mainly for your personal use.
As far as converting back...a studio space is not going to ruing the room/building. Once the gear is removed...it will simplyh be a room again, but with better acoustics and soundproofing.

Oh...and what the heck is that in the adjoining space in your diagram...is that a cow???

 

[meraj]

oh yea ... ur right, but the area shown in ur latest post i think can be enough, and i think u'll have no problems coming and going...good idea...Good luck

 

[r1chard]

It's not just a question of fitting your gear in the room...it's really about the acoustics and being able to mix in there.

A 5 foot room just ain't gonna work...no matter how long it is.

And I wouldn't get to concerned about having a vocal booth either. A small booth is just not a good place to do vocals...unless you're just going to record spoken-word and you want it super dead.
I have never heard of people doing this, but then again I am not a sound guy. My computers or anything that has a fan, I have always put them in another room away from the vocal room, or in the sound room away from the where the mics are and controlled them remotely

One large room, properly treated for acoustics, not just soundproofing (as they are two different things) will sound good and work good for most everything. Lots of small/home/project studios just go with the one-room approach, especially when the studio is mainly for your personal use.
As far as converting back...a studio space is not going to ruing the room/building. Once the gear is removed...it will simplyh be a room again, but with better acoustics and soundproofing.
[/I am trying to get the sound proofing down first and for the lowest possible price so I will have money to spend on better accoustics, foam/baffels and that type of stuff.
Oh...and what the heck is that in the adjoining space in your diagram...is that a cow???

I always keep a cow in my utility room LOL. I was just playing with the program to see if anyone would notice.

 

[r1chard]

OK, so you guys conviced me. Now I was able to intrude into the room next to this one for a closet/vocal room which I can insulate pretty well. And now the room is approx 15x20 which is a pretty good size for what I need. Once I start rolling I will let you know how it goes.

 

[pandamonk]

This is how I'd set up your control room. Something akin to WhiteStrat's

 

[r1chard]

Ok, when I get that far, I will ask some more questions about how to deaden or finish off the room. I still wish someone could answer the questions about resiliant channel and double sheetrocking the walls and which one is better.

 

[pandamonk]

Ok, when I get that far, I will ask some more questions about how to deaden or finish off the room. I still wish someone could answer the questions about resiliant channel and double sheetrocking the walls and which one is better.

I think you bigger concern is windows.

 

[r1chard]

I think you bigger concern is windows.

There is only one and this is a walkout basement and this end is underground. It is a window well. I will cover the top with plywood with a sheet of sheet rock, the outside of the window will be similar with some 2 inch dense foam and similar on the inside. All fairly easy to install and remove. Unless you have better ideas. (I am goint to rip out that little shelf next to the window I made so the room is a rectangle)
http://www.soundaway.com/Soundproofing_Closed_Cell_Foam_p/15005.htm

 

[Weasel9992]

This is how I'd set up your control room. Something akin to WhiteStrat's

+1. That's the right way to set it up.

 

[jab2980]

I always keep a cow in my utility room LOL. I was just playing with the program to see if anyone would notice.

Got a good laugh out of the guy on the can as well

 

[pandamonk]

There is only one and this is a walkout basement and this end is underground. It is a window well. I will cover the top with plywood with a sheet of sheet rock, the outside of the window will be similar with some 2 inch dense foam and similar on the inside. All fairly easy to install and remove. Unless you have better ideas. (I am goint to rip out that little shelf next to the window I made so the room is a rectangle)
http://www.soundaway.com/Soundproofing_Closed_Cell_Foam_p/15005.htm

Regardless of how many weak links you have, your build will only be as sound"proof" as your weakest link (usually windows and doors).

Walls, especially exterior walls, tend to do a pretty good job by themselves. It's only when you cut a hole in them (door, window, etc) that you tend to have problems.

Think about it this way: you have a brick built wall, a gap, then a 4" stud filled with insulation, and finally a layer of drywall. That's a pretty hefty structure which by itself can offer upwards of 55dB of isolation (if it's buried, this could be far more).

You cut a hole in it and this drops to 0dB. You install a typical 1/8” Double Glazed Window with ¼” air space. This is pretty lightweight in comparison and can provide around 26dB of isolation. Regardless of the walls, this room is only going to isolate around 26dB (audibly around 1/8 as effective, and far worse at bass frequencies).

If you add a second layer of drywall, it'll cost a lot of money but ain't gonna do anything to help the window isolate any more.

A ½” Double Glazed Laminated Glass, with 4” Spacing, Steel Frame, and Interior Absorption window should provide around 55dB of isolation and match the wall.

Even if the window wasn't there, a second layer of drywall will barely add 1dB of isolation to this structure.

And btw, that foam won't isolation anything.

 

[r1chard]

Got a good laugh out of the guy on the can as well

LOL, someone noticed

 

[r1chard]

Think about it this way: you have a brick built wall, a gap, then a 4" stud filled with insulation, and finally a layer of drywall. That's a pretty hefty structure which by itself can offer upwards of 55dB of isolation (if it's buried, this could be far more).

The walls are 1 foot concrete burried underground. If you are saying a wall provides good insulation, covering the top of the window well, covering the outside of the window, the window is double glazed, covering the inside of the window (and outside) with 2x4 construction, insulation, and basicly having 3 layers of this is much better than just a window I would think.

You cut a hole in it and this drops to 0dB. You install a typical 1/8” Double Glazed Window with ¼” air space. This is pretty lightweight in comparison and can provide around 26dB of isolation. Regardless of the walls, this room is only going to isolate around 26dB (audibly around 1/8 as effective, and far worse at bass frequencies).

If you add a second layer of drywall, it'll cost a lot of money but ain't gonna do anything to help the window isolate any more.

A ½” Double Glazed Laminated Glass, with 4” Spacing, Steel Frame, and Interior Absorption window should provide around 55dB of isolation and match the wall.

I maybe able to do something like that.

Even if the window wasn't there, a second layer of drywall will barely add 1dB of isolation to this structure.

Ok, how about resilian channel?

And btw, that foam won't isolation anything.

Well it is what I have to work with. As is stands now the basement is very quiet even with the single window in that room. Again, it is what I have to work with. It may not be perfect but it will be better than upstairs. It is only a hobby for me and it will have to be enough. I think I will still go with double drywall on the ceiling though to help reduce noise from upstairs.

 

[7thbass]

If you are going to do double dry wall, then . . .

can think about using green glue or mounting the double drywall on a resilient channel.

Resilient channel is about equivalent to green glue if you are adding the soundproofing to one side of a the studs. if have access to both sides of studs, green glue may be better (according to their website).

Resilient channel us much cheaper (using RC2). Used it in my man cave in conjunction with 2 layers of 5/8" drywall and insulation and it works very well. Except for loud electric bass.

Best would be to stagger studs and build room within a room, but that is expensive too.

 

[pandamonk]

The walls are 1 foot concrete burried underground. If you are saying a wall provides good insulation, covering the top of the window well, covering the outside of the window, the window is double glazed, covering the inside of the window (and outside) with 2x4 construction, insulation, and basicly having 3 layers of this is much better than just a window I would think.

2 layers is better than 3+ layers, so try and make it a 2 leaf system (although the double glazed window is already 2 layers). The best option imo is to cover the top of the window well, but you should make sure its sealed properly. Otherwise installing a second window inside the room, as far from the existing window as possible, will be a good option.

I maybe able to do something like that.

That was simply an example of a sufficient window. Other options, as above, will work.

Well it is what I have to work with. As is stands now the basement is very quiet even with the single window in that room. Again, it is what I have to work with. It may not be perfect but it will be better than upstairs. It is only a hobby for me and it will have to be enough. I think I will still go with double drywall on the ceiling though to help reduce noise from upstairs.

If it's already quiet enough you don't need to bother further isolation

can think about using green glue or mounting the double drywall on a resilient channel.

Resilient channel is about equivalent to green glue if you are adding the soundproofing to one side of a the studs. if have access to both sides of studs, green glue may be better (according to their website).

Resilient channel us much cheaper (using RC2). Used it in my man cave in conjunction with 2 layers of 5/8" drywall and insulation and it works very well. Except for loud electric bass.

Best would be to stagger studs and build room within a room, but that is expensive too.

True, but again windows are door are far more likely to be the weakest links. The walls should provide enough isolation.