How do I know if I'm having phase issues?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Uladine
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Uladine

Uladine

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I've read that having alot of mics on a drum set will almost certainly cause phase issues. Right now I'm using a kick mic, snare mic, overheads in an x-y configuration, and a mic on each tom (3). I have each tom mic pointed at the impact area of the batter head, but they are also angled so they aren't lined up with any other drum or sound source to eliminate bleeding as much as possible.

Anyway I know that swishy cymbals and such are a sign of phase problems, as are times where it sounds almost like you have two snare hits on top of eachother as opposed to one solid hit. But what about phase cancellation? When I solo each mic or set of mics or any combination of mics together, everything sounds normal in mono and stereo, but can there be things to look for that I'm not noticing?

I'm curious, as drum miking is a huge (and fun) challenge for me and in my oppinion the drum sound sets the sound quality of a recording.
 
The thing about phase issues, is that you usually know when you encountered them. They're characterized (sp?) by a faint, "out-of-focus" sound. If you listened in both stereo and mono, and it sounds pretty much the same, then you're probobly fine. One way to make sure, is have someone sit at the drummers seat, and talk. If you have phasing problems, you'll notice them on speach a lot more.

Oren
 
Good info Aren/oren

One of the most important part of the kit is the bassdrum. One very way to check if its not affected by phase, is listening to the bassdrum solo and with all the mics up. If it looses strength and low you'll defenitly have a phase problem.
 
Hey Aren, is waves as pricey in Israel as it is here? Being their hometown and all....whats the homerec/studio scene like in Israel? Are bands doing more DIY or studio?


Gus
 
Hi pilgrim,

Yes. Waves is as pricy in Israel as it is anywhere else. They have absolutely no interest in where you come from - only how large is your checking account.
The home recording scene here is growing slowly but surely. Since things are less then perfect politicaly and financially, major studios are shutting down as we speak. Working as an assistant engineer at a commercial studio, I can tell you that business is pretty awfull. The main problem with people going home-rec, is the rediculous prices on recording equipment here. Between the horrific taxes on "luxorious products" (a category that recording gear falls into, for some unknown reason), the current USD exchange rate, and the thiefs who are importing this stuff, we are basically forced upon Behringer mixers and relying on occasional trips to the US to get some nice mics without going bankropt.

Oren
 
Sorry to hear that.

I know things are rough now. That sucks that major studios are shutting down but maybe that could be good for smaller setups that charge less. There are always musicians who want to record...How much is a delta 1010 there? C1? Im thinking about volunteering for a month to help the IDF on their bases...theres this girl here in NY whose organizing a group of volunteers. Ill see if I can afford to take off for a month.

You cant order stuff from musiciansfriend and have it shipped?
 
this is a good thread. The stuff about talking/kikc drum for testing should come in handy.

My question is (and this has been touched on somewhat...in the big mic thread) is when you have say 4-5 mics on a drumset...

Does the 3:1 rule apply? Or is that only when you have 2 mics?

And if it doesn't apply...why not...seems like a phase disaster. hehe.

If you wanted two overheads, a mic on snare, and a kick mic.
 
Two things that can help:
1)measure from the snarehead center to the overhead capsules and make them equidistant.
2)gate the mics so that excess bleed is reduced

or use less mics!That's the direction I've been heading lately in my drum micing.I down to 4 or 3 depending.
Tom
 
That's a really good suggestion, Tom.

I'd also use hypercardiods wherever possible. If not, then be sure to space them far apart. Especially if you're using omni-directionals like the ecm8000's, or wide-cardiods like the Octava mco12's/marshall mxl 603's.
 
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