sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
Go here: http://www.monkees.net/default.htm
See if you can tweet them or something and get them to come over and sing...that would be one way to get that sound.
My MIL bumped into David Jones out on the coast here and chatted with him awhile. If he comes around again I'll see if he wants to come over with his friends.
Seriously...that is such a dubious question.
Anybody know anything about the gear and process involved with recording the Monkees? I imagine Universal Studios was involved.
I'm sure somebody with something of some real value will chime in...I don't strive for the vintage sound so I don't really know where the best place to start is, other than start by trying to mimic vintage operating levels, find a good analog reverb and start experimenting with different mics that you have. That vintage analog reverb can really bring out a LOT of vintage character.
See if you can tweet them or something and get them to come over and sing...that would be one way to get that sound.
My MIL bumped into David Jones out on the coast here and chatted with him awhile. If he comes around again I'll see if he wants to come over with his friends.
Seriously...that is such a dubious question.
Anybody know anything about the gear and process involved with recording the Monkees? I imagine Universal Studios was involved.
I'm sure somebody with something of some real value will chime in...I don't strive for the vintage sound so I don't really know where the best place to start is, other than start by trying to mimic vintage operating levels, find a good analog reverb and start experimenting with different mics that you have. That vintage analog reverb can really bring out a LOT of vintage character.
P
pianodano
Guest
I know nothing first hand- only from tidbits here and there and my own observations.
A great place to start would probably be to try to rent Sweetbeats Ampex machine from the era or track on a MCI JH24 but that might be just a bit to huge sounding. There is a teensy bit of info on Carol Kaye's site. I am pretty sure she played bass and chances are Hal Blaine played drums. I can't tell for sure but I suspect most of the tracking was done at RCA studios originally (prior to New York) but it could be that United Recorders did some of the tracking. I have just never really heard the United/Ocean Way sound in those songs but for sure their Universal Audio 610 preamp will put you in the ballpark. Prepare to spend some serious money though. You will definitely need quite a few U47's. If you are really researching that sound, head over to Gearslutz or maybe the Womb and you might be able to connect with one of the original engineers or assistants.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Monkees#Developing_the_music
http://www.carolkaye.com/www/biography/index.htm
A great place to start would probably be to try to rent Sweetbeats Ampex machine from the era or track on a MCI JH24 but that might be just a bit to huge sounding. There is a teensy bit of info on Carol Kaye's site. I am pretty sure she played bass and chances are Hal Blaine played drums. I can't tell for sure but I suspect most of the tracking was done at RCA studios originally (prior to New York) but it could be that United Recorders did some of the tracking. I have just never really heard the United/Ocean Way sound in those songs but for sure their Universal Audio 610 preamp will put you in the ballpark. Prepare to spend some serious money though. You will definitely need quite a few U47's. If you are really researching that sound, head over to Gearslutz or maybe the Womb and you might be able to connect with one of the original engineers or assistants.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Monkees#Developing_the_music
http://www.carolkaye.com/www/biography/index.htm
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lonewhitefly
Active member
In terms of gear, it will most likely be out of the price range of most of us on this board. I am convinced that you can come up with your own version of this sound with the gear that you have. You just have to experiment with what you have until you hear what you want.
For the tracks, don’t compress anything on the way in, use lots of reverb and get as many people in the same room playing together as possible. Use any decent dynamic mic and any decent preamp. Old electro voice mics work great and are cheap. shure sm57s etc. are fine.
for vocals, a good-sounding room/booth, good singer, any large diaphragm condenser should get you in the ball park.
Use low-output tape (the standard tape from this era was Scotch 201, 202 or 203) and bounce a few times. Compress everything together on the final mix. Don’t use any computers. Avoid gear made after the 1970s. use few effects, basically tremolo, reverb, tape delay and compression.
are you referring to "i'm a believer" specifically or the Monkees '66-era sound in particular? because the gear/studio was a bit different than the norm on this particular track. it was cut in New York by Jeff Barry instead of Los Angeles by Boyce & Hart. The vocals were done in LA as usual though. The sound you are hearing is more about technique than gear for sure in this case. although i don't think you could do in on digital.
For the tracks, don’t compress anything on the way in, use lots of reverb and get as many people in the same room playing together as possible. Use any decent dynamic mic and any decent preamp. Old electro voice mics work great and are cheap. shure sm57s etc. are fine.
for vocals, a good-sounding room/booth, good singer, any large diaphragm condenser should get you in the ball park.
Use low-output tape (the standard tape from this era was Scotch 201, 202 or 203) and bounce a few times. Compress everything together on the final mix. Don’t use any computers. Avoid gear made after the 1970s. use few effects, basically tremolo, reverb, tape delay and compression.
are you referring to "i'm a believer" specifically or the Monkees '66-era sound in particular? because the gear/studio was a bit different than the norm on this particular track. it was cut in New York by Jeff Barry instead of Los Angeles by Boyce & Hart. The vocals were done in LA as usual though. The sound you are hearing is more about technique than gear for sure in this case. although i don't think you could do in on digital.
analogkid
I Bleed Analog!
Yep those would have been mostly session musicians, Tommy Tedesco likely did the guitar work (He definitely did teh guitar work for The Partridge Family and the Brady tunes). use a lot of dynamic mics also - that stuff is what my recording intructor used to call Garage-o-rama!
AK
AK
bouldersoundguy
Well-known member
Glen Campbell also played on some of their stuff.
Dolenz is singing that song (written by Neil Diamond), but he had to take lessons to believably ape playing drums.
Nesmith, Tork and Jones all had some semblance of music careers before the Monkees but weren't always allowed to play on their recordings at first.
Yeah, you'd need a fortune in vintage studio gear to truly mimic the sound.
Dolenz is singing that song (written by Neil Diamond), but he had to take lessons to believably ape playing drums.
Nesmith, Tork and Jones all had some semblance of music careers before the Monkees but weren't always allowed to play on their recordings at first.
Yeah, you'd need a fortune in vintage studio gear to truly mimic the sound.
Herm
Well-known member
Isnt it funny Dolenz has the kit setup for a left handed drummer. His feet are set for a left handed drummer but he is playing right handed with his hands.
Make up your mind Mick
Make up your mind Mick
SteveM
New member
I love the Monkees but the youtube videos sound horrible. I noticed that too with 3 dog night.
T
The Great Cobb
New member
truth
The truth is you cant get it to sound exactly the same. But, if you listen very closely how each instrument sounds (ambience, panning, frequency content, function within the whole, etc) you can narrow down the traits by confirming what they are not. This will help you get closer to your understanding of why you like certain types of sounds over others. You can also notice subtle details that contribute to the overall perception of the sound in things like, that in the Monkees track some instruments quickly fade out after they are heard at the end of the verse or chorus etc. Probably someone just pulling down the fader at the end of a guitar part etc.
Basically all you can do is examine the sounds and figure out what you like about them and then chase that same vibe in your own recordings. You wont ever be able to get the exact same sound, but if you loved how "honest" a recording sounded, youd be better off figuring out what traits make a recording sound "honest" to you, and then try to make your equipment produce that sound. This way, you may never get the exact sound of a Monkees tune, but at least you will have learned how to get an "honest" (or whatever vibe it is) sound out of your own equipment.
BTW, usually a great song in the old classic "pop" style prioritizes melody, vocal performance, and lyrics first. They are the most important parts and all of them should be focused on, finished, and sounding entertaining on their own without any help from production style. If you have those things then you can move on to the next important things like solid, expressive drumming and bass playing that moves with the kick drum and is not just a low register guitar part being passed off as a bassline. At that point, if everything is working for you, you are practically done. Only a small amount of flavoring is added to those old pop style tunes. Everything follows the list of priorities starting with vocal melody and lyrics, as well as composition/structure. Keep the vocals up front and the lyrics should be amusing or interesting one after another, no lulls. Always go simpler and simpler if you can. Thats how those old songs are.
If you have a solid composition and you record it decently and then balance the sounds by mostly lowering volumes and cutting eq (rather than boosting eq and raising volumes to solve mix problems), you will end up with something that impresses even if it isnt a carbon copy of the Monkees recorded sound.
While we are posting youtubes of the classics, here is one of my favorite ones:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMtGnVVpdO4
The truth is you cant get it to sound exactly the same. But, if you listen very closely how each instrument sounds (ambience, panning, frequency content, function within the whole, etc) you can narrow down the traits by confirming what they are not. This will help you get closer to your understanding of why you like certain types of sounds over others. You can also notice subtle details that contribute to the overall perception of the sound in things like, that in the Monkees track some instruments quickly fade out after they are heard at the end of the verse or chorus etc. Probably someone just pulling down the fader at the end of a guitar part etc.
Basically all you can do is examine the sounds and figure out what you like about them and then chase that same vibe in your own recordings. You wont ever be able to get the exact same sound, but if you loved how "honest" a recording sounded, youd be better off figuring out what traits make a recording sound "honest" to you, and then try to make your equipment produce that sound. This way, you may never get the exact sound of a Monkees tune, but at least you will have learned how to get an "honest" (or whatever vibe it is) sound out of your own equipment.
BTW, usually a great song in the old classic "pop" style prioritizes melody, vocal performance, and lyrics first. They are the most important parts and all of them should be focused on, finished, and sounding entertaining on their own without any help from production style. If you have those things then you can move on to the next important things like solid, expressive drumming and bass playing that moves with the kick drum and is not just a low register guitar part being passed off as a bassline. At that point, if everything is working for you, you are practically done. Only a small amount of flavoring is added to those old pop style tunes. Everything follows the list of priorities starting with vocal melody and lyrics, as well as composition/structure. Keep the vocals up front and the lyrics should be amusing or interesting one after another, no lulls. Always go simpler and simpler if you can. Thats how those old songs are.
If you have a solid composition and you record it decently and then balance the sounds by mostly lowering volumes and cutting eq (rather than boosting eq and raising volumes to solve mix problems), you will end up with something that impresses even if it isnt a carbon copy of the Monkees recorded sound.
While we are posting youtubes of the classics, here is one of my favorite ones:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMtGnVVpdO4
Herm
Well-known member
Ok I need to ask and i know this wont make sense to some of you but is this
J R
J R
T
The Ghost of FM
Banned
Yup!
Technique and absolute genius level talent on every aspect of the finished product.
The art of writing songs like that, the arrangements, having the extremely seasoned session players, the vocals way up front and then distressing the whole thing by making a copy of a copy of a copy until the sound is degraded enough to sound authentic to the era.
The recording and mixing of all of that takes a major back seat to all the other factors mentioned.
Cheers!
