How do I direct someone?

  • Thread starter Thread starter demensia
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demensia

demensia

www.lukemacneil.com
I've been working with a singer who is looking for me to direct him, and tell him what to do.. I dont know what to tell the guy.. when I do make a suggestion, he doesnt do it anyway.

Damnit Jim I'm a guitar player, not a producer!.

I dont feel comfortable telling this kid what to do, when I dont know what the hell I'm doing myself..

Is that normal, should I just tell him to shut the fuck up and sing louder and back away from the mic because he's making my god damn ears bleed?
 
Yo Demented One:]

Start charging the dude 50 dollars per half hour of counciling. This should terminate your problema.

Green Hornet :D :p :p
 
when you say "working with" that connotates to me that you have a vested interest in whether that singer performs well. you aren't just selling that person studio time.

if that is that case, then one of you need to learn enough music theory to (either by training or just by ear) to know what direction to take when recording vocals.

if that person is you then take charge.

i don't mince words with anyone. i will dig into your sh*t in a minute if it means getting the vocal take that i want.

if the singer doesn't listen and what he/she comes up with isn't better than what I heard in my mind when I composed the track, then the singer doesn't work with me anymore. I'll be damned if I'm going to waste my time.

so here's what i do:

i teach the singer the song, and I make him/her sing it exactly how i want it and get it as right as can be for two takes. that usually gives me two really good takes and about 4-5 takes that have good pieces.

then i let the singer sing the song his/her way and get it as right as can be for two takes.

then i ask the singer to just totally free-style over the whole song for 2 takes.

once the singer gets used to working this way, things are great because the singer knows that he/she is going to get a chance to do things his/her way.

i also do my best to make sure that the mood around the studio is pro-singer. my wife has gotten a really good attitude about making tea and crap like that if the singer is talented.

another thing i do is that i don't look at the singer while they are recording. i keep my eyes on the DAW and I keep the lights down low.
 
Thanks for the tips CS.

I say that Im working "with" him because neither one of us really knows what we're doing. I just happen to be the one behind the controls. Its apparent that this kid has never done anything before (although he says he has) and I can see obvious potential and determination in him, just dont know how to pull it out of him.

I'm trying to get the vocal take I want, but I don't feel write when he wrote the vocals in the first place.

He's a friend of mine so time/money is not important.

I'll do my best to inform him when he sucks though.
 
never pretend to be or know something that you aren't. if your singer could benefit by working with a vocal producer, then suggest he hire one.
 
Littledog is right. Singing is work, like playing a guitar. You can't teach him what you don't know. He doesn't need a producer, he needs a voice teacher and 10 years of practice. Here's a radical idea- you want to be a tracking engineer? Find someone who already can sing. Where to find that? Try joining a choir in school or in a church. Your singing will improve over time, and you'll meet some people who really can sing.
What you're asking this guy to do is to pick up a guitar and play it immediately, without lessons, and without practice. Ain't gonna happen.-Richie
 
i gotta disagree.

if the singer has potential, and the two of you have time to grow together and work together, then do just that. over time one of you will emerge as the leader of particular areas of the music.
 
Sometimes the line between engineer, producer, vocal coach and baby sitter becomes very blurred.

Someone always has to take the role of the producer and unless a producer has been hired for a project, that role normally falls to the "artist" (or one or the artists - is it's a band). However, the engineer often may have the best "ears" in the room - and as such can contribute needed input (if the input is done "the right way").

At my studio, I am often asked for an opinion (even when someone else has the responsibility of producer). When it comes to vocals, I'm always trying to listen for plosives, "saliva noise", out of tune singing, poor diction etc. (anything that compromises my ability to get the best sound recorded).

I will normally play back a part and ask "do you hear what I hear in this part? - in many cases the singer or producer will hear the problem and agree on a solution (normally record the part again).

If they don't hear the problem the 1st time I play it back I will again play it back and point out the problem - it is then up to the "client" to decide if they should fix it.

If someone asked for my opinion, I may also offer suggestions on phrasing or a shift of dynamics, etc. - however, it is always done very carefully so as not to deflate the rather fragile ego most singers bring to the studio.

So demensia, if you are not comfortable, you should politely explain that to the singer. Or you can try to focus at least on those things an engineer should listen for (plosives, etc.) and offer advise in that limited capacity.
 
Actually much to my dismay, said singer and I spend last night driving around in circles belting out random scales and drinking whole milk..

Does that sound strange to anyone?

Thanks for all the replies. I get confused as to what each specific job title is responsible for (ie. producer, director, engineer).. I just always tried to be everything.

I'm taking singing lessons at the moment and the instructor has me singing scales, so Im doing my best to get this kid to sing the scales as well.
 
i suppose "blind leading the blind" is one way to do things, but not my method of choice. nothing wrong with an engineer giving opinions or direction, especially if solicited by the artist. it just should be made clear to what extent those opinions are informed or not, so that the performer can give them the appropiate amount of consideration.

someday i hope you have the opportunity to work with experienced vocal producers. the difference in the quality of the performance that can be elicited from the singer is amazing: phrasing tips, sound production techniques, when to put an "h" sound in front of a vowel, where and when to breathe, what part of the voice to use, mouth shapes, stylistic criticisms, doubling tricks, emotional content, intonation, finding alternate ways to sing a problem part, when to leave off final consonants, creating stacked harmonies, monitoring for exhaustion (knowing when to quit), etc.

do it enough times and you'll pick up enough tips and tricks through observation that maybe you can start to do a reasonable job of it yourself, but until then...

and drinking dairy products during a vocal session is a definite no-no. just an example of one of those things any experienced vocal producer would know. (it over-stimulates mucus production).
 
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