How come some pros don't need room treatment?

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lockesilver

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For months I have been trying to treat the studio-room (the DIY way) to get rid of the sound of the computer fan (impossible), cars driving nearby and dogs barking like a mile away from here. Not to mention reflections, echoes etc. I decided to move my studio to a flat I happen to own and make a real(ish) amateur studio out of it. It was either that or the dogs.

So how come I sometimes find movies on youtube or photos somewhere where a professional voiceover artist is recording sth sitting in front of his/her desk full of gear. I mean come on, with a condenser mic? All the buzz from the equipment, no acoustic foam and then the track sounds just clean and fine.

Is there some kind of magic involved? Don't tell me. When you reach a certain level of skills you're granted the permission to record without noise by the studio fairy.

My friend told me once that the really good mics (the most expensive ones) simply don't pick up crap. They are too expensive and all. I told him it would be like the most expensive toilets wouldn't pick up crap.

So the only explanation I can think of is that these guys compress the funny stuff out of the recordings... but to such an extent?

What do you think?

PS. If you don't know what I'm talking about I'd gladly give an example of such a youtube movie but at the moment I'm on an internet connection that is slower than a dead slug nailed to the ground. With an anvil dropped on it. On the bottom of a pool. Filled with concrete. Well, you get the idea.
 
Foam doesn't cut it. The room is all important, you either have a good sounding one or you don't. Bass frequencies with huge dips cause muddy sound. You can get away from some of it with good micing techniques, and that's why pros can do better than most in a bad room, but they are that much better in a good room. As for isolating yourself from outside sounds, that's just construction issues.
 
Im not to sure really,

One of the things I can think of however, would be to use eq to eliminate the back ground noise, I recorded a finger picked acoustic guitar the other day, which had quite alot of background noise. (unfortunatly where I live is kinda near a main road) and I was messing around with EQ before I decided to re track it. And I found that if you find the frequencies where the noise is resonating and cut that thin band it removes most of the noise, while not affecting the sound too much (i was using a 30band eq) either that or using a fairly tight gate and/or limiter. or the obvious. . . they have the fortune to live in a very very quiet place.

my mics arnt that good but ive never really had any trouble with computer noise though.
 
lockesilver said:
So how come I sometimes find movies on youtube or photos somewhere where a professional voiceover artist is recording sth sitting in front of his/her desk full of gear. I mean come on, with a condenser mic? All the buzz from the equipment, no acoustic foam and then the track sounds just clean and fine.
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Because you can't see the foam or whatever doesn't mean the room hasn't been treated. What you can't see is important (e.g. double-glazed windows). You only pick up noise from equipment if the equipment is noisy. A domestic PC with a power supply that sounds like a 747 taking off is not helpful. But a PC with a silent power supply and CPU cooler is.

lockesilver said:
Is there some kind of magic involved? Don't tell me. When you reach a certain level of skills you're granted the permission to record without noise by the studio fairy.
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The studio fairy, once you've reached a certain level of skills, grants you knowledge on how to deal with noise.

lockesilver said:
My friend told me once that the really good mics (the most expensive ones) simply don't pick up crap. They are too expensive and all. I told him it would be like the most expensive toilets wouldn't pick up crap.
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You were right. Cheap or expensive, all mikes will pick up crap.

lockesilver said:
So the only explanation I can think of is that these guys compress the funny stuff out of the recordings... but to such an extent?
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Sometimes they will use noise reduction filters, sometimes they will use noise gates. Compression does not help, and usually makes it worse. The techniques and tricks are: good acoustic treatment of the room, equipment that is quiet, good mike placement, good gain structure, and a clean and simple signal path.
 
Good points, good points everyone.

That still doesn't explain the lack of lava lamps, though. Now that's really suspicious.

I'm starting to think the best way to eliminate unwanted noise (skills aside) is to build a studio from scratch (as in: build, the building) in a quiet place and taking into consideration all the acoustics stuff...
 
If you do this for a living, you get equipment that doesn't make noise.

There are a lot of studios that don't have foam and bass traps hanging on the walls, but that doesn't mean the room isn't treated. The shape of the room, the type of ceiling, what the walls are made out of, etc.. all play into this.

When you are a professional voice over guy, you have good mic technique and probably project (speak loudly) in such a way that the mic isn't turned up high enough to pick up random noises.
 
Check out the John L Sayers forums. A lot of his designs deal with room issues during construction, but there are still bass traps and other absorbers there, you just can't "see" them. Most are in the form of slot absorbers.

It's true that good sounding rooms start at construction, but if you can't afford it, things like rigid fiberglass, cotton fiber (UltraTouch), or rockwool are your best bet.

Heh I drool every time I stop over there :D
(someday d.bop.... someday...)
 
lockesilver said:
That still doesn't explain the lack of lava lamps, though. Now that's really suspicious.
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... No comment. (that is top secret... I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)

lockesilver said:
I'm starting to think the best way to eliminate unwanted noise (skills aside) is to build a studio from scratch (as in: build, the building) in a quiet place and taking into consideration all the acoustics stuff...
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You are on the right road to understanding - Isolation vs Acoustics within an enclosure. Do not confuse the two.

If I understand you correctly, you are basically needing isolation from those pesky outside noises and the noise from your equipment.

This can be accomplished even in a noisy environment - it just costs more. Mass blocks sound. A mass-spring-mass system blocks it more efficiently. Search for these key words for more information.

Most pro studios are built in this manner. Noisy equipment is usually isolated in special enclosures or rooms.

Cheers,
John
 
This is a neat panorama view of a nice (putting it mildly) room. You need Quicktime to view it. Put your mouse cursor on the pic and you can spin it around. I'll bet the high end is sweet with all the wood, and I like how it's angled on the walls and ceiling. Also, the boards are different widths.
http://www.avatarstudios.net/rooms/studio_a.html
I'm not big on the modern trend of sticking up stuff to make a room sound right.
 
For VO there's also a little piece of gear called a "gate". :D That, combined with a decent compressor and a skilled op, can produce smooth, relatively noise-free tracks just about every time.
 
Hey guys, I haven't been on here in a long while but I came over to post a question on another forum and thought I'd check in here. Lockesilver, it sure would be helpful for us to see some pix of some of these "mystery" rooms. I'm betting the the picture you see shows equipment and not the room. And jhbrandt was right, a lot of the acoustical treatments are built in and not visible. If the person has a solid career built up and works out of his own studio, you can bet that they have a PC with the quietest fans and PSUs in 'em. And, they've got some sort of acoustical treatment included too. It could be, though that that they know the limitations of their room and have learned to work around them. You'd be surprised at how crappy some of the individual tracks on some of the biggest selling albums sound when they're standing on their own stark naked in the light of day. But mix them in with the other instruments and vocals and it's pure genius.

The Avatar room that was linked is smack dab full of acoustical treatments. What you see in the picture is the solid wood all the way around, or in some areas alternating wood and fabric. Behind the fabric is several inches of insulation. Trust me, the walls in that place are not 2X4s stuffed with pink insulation. That place was purposely built as a studio and on something that scale they will use double wall construction, caulk around all the seams, insulate the crap out of it with multiple types of insulation, then cover it all to look like it's just a plain old wall.

Several years ago, there was a studio from down around Atlanta that had a construction page that showed excellent details of their framing, wall construction, and acoustical treatments. It was a real treasure trove of information but unfortunately it bit the dust and the website is long gone. (Matchbox 20 even did a couple of their albums there, and IIRC, it was called Evergreen.) Wish it was still around...
 
MikeA said:
Several years ago, there was a studio from down around Atlanta that had a construction page that showed excellent details of their framing, wall construction, and acoustical treatments. It was a real treasure trove of information but unfortunately it bit the dust and the website is long gone. (Matchbox 20 even did a couple of their albums there, and IIRC, it was called Evergreen.) Wish it was still around...
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Rick Fitzpatrick posted this in another thread recently:

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/phot...cts/341598-bridge-recording-studio-build.html

It's obviously not the same studio, but it's another purpose-built studio with very detailed behind-the-scenes construction photos, and it's a pretty fascinating read.
 
Drew, thanks for posting that link. I felt weak literally after viewing the construction pics. That's what I think heaven will be like.
 
lockesilver said:
Good points, good points everyone.

That still doesn't explain the lack of lava lamps, though. Now that's really suspicious.

I don't have a Lava Lamp but I am considering getting a Farrah Fawcett poster (may she rest in peace)
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matresses

I bought a whole pile of foam too and it doesnt really do jack for unwanted noises. Im about to move to a place right near a highway. To counter this im thinking of getting lots of double mattresses for around the walls and perhaps even on the floor underneath a raised floor.
 
desmond22 said:
I bought a whole pile of foam too and it doesnt really do jack for unwanted noises. Im about to move to a place right near a highway. To counter this im thinking of getting lots of double mattresses for around the walls and perhaps even on the floor underneath a raised floor.
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Des,

Dood, haha.. here's a quote from a really smart guy, Albert Einstein;

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome."

--- It seems I keep 'saying' this over and over; absorption, diffusion, reflection, etc, etc etc.. are all for acoustics control within and enclosure.

These do extremely little or nothing for sound-proofing.

Foam is an absorber. Matresses are ... hmmm.. i'm not sure. :P I don't think they are in the acoustics catalog - but could qualify for some form of absorption. -- this is the 'same' thing.

To block sound/noise you must have MASS or better yet, a mass-air-mass system.

OP and anyone that is serious about recording;

Professionals do not record or mix in untreated rooms. The treatment may not be seen, but it is treated. Voice-over work is very different from singing or music recording. You can use post production filters for voice-over work, but still the best are done in a treated room. This is not an opinion.

Cheers,
John
 
lockesilver,

Sorry - NO.

Please read the web page. "Highly versatile wall treatment, acoustic baffling for studio tracking, or for instrument separation in rehearsal rooms/live recording, this really is a one stop product for all needs. You can take it off the wall to track recordings or to rehearse with, and then replace it in seconds to mix in an acoustically treated environment." (emphasis added)

It's acoustic treatment.

These are absorbers. They control reverberation/decay times within an enclosure.

Gypsum board has a mass of 650kg/m3 - That's a BIG difference, my friend. Please do not confuse treatment with sound-proofing. You can see why a couple of sites have made it to my "Voodoo" page. :P

Cheers,
John
 
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