how can i improve my midi drums

[luken2000]

Hey guys, i´m new here and my question is how can i improve sound of my midi drums which imo sound still quite unnatural. I know that it never gonna sound like a real drummer though i need to find a way how to make it near perfection. Btw it´s a mix of cymbals, toms and hihats from ez drummer dfh, some kick i found on internet and addictive tama snare. Would someone give some advice where am i wrong with it? thanx

sorry for filefactory, but i don´t know how to attach such a files here

 

[dintymoore]

I can't get that link to work, don't know if being a Mac user is why...

 

[recordman]

Sometimes you can get away with fake drums if the rest of the music is strong enough and it's done right but almost never sampled cymbals. Try steven slate drums...it's a little better than ezdrummer but still it's going to sound fake almost no matter what. Hose it down with a lot of reverb on everything...

 

[luken2000]

hopefully it´s gonna work that way.


to recordman
well i really like how it is now, i mean the whole kit, but the thing is that i´m not sure about the "lifelike" factor. maybe your´re right and all the instruments around could hide it but i can´t rely on it.

 

[dintymoore]

Yes that new link worked for me.

I think the problem you are up against is the same problem we all have with this stuff. The drums aren't bad but the cymbals are lacking.

Here's some stuff I've found helped me:

Soak the cymbals in reverb.

On the cymbals I tend to do "accented then unaccented" beats (accented on the beat) not the same values.

On the kick I usually have to roll the top off a bit, usually the beater click is a little loud for me, but it depends on the song.

Pay particular attention to the note volumes, the ratios between them make a big difference. Samples sound different at different volumes, so use that. Like in a fill on snare, if you mess with the note volumes you can make it way better.

When I do crash cymbals, I tend not to quantize them. You can hit two or three crash cymbals in a unquantized clump and often get a better, more believable crash. And that way, because it's clumps of 2 or 3, it sounds different each time. Nothing worse than hearing the same crash several times in a row. In real life it is pretty impossible to hit a cymbal twice and get the same sound.

I tend to run my hihat soft because it sucks if it's too loud at all - bury it.

The real solution for the cymbals, if you can, is to record live ones over the MIDI tracks. I do that a lot, because often I prefer the sound of the MIDI kick and snare over a real one.

 

[Xdrummer]

One "secret" I learned long ago with electronic drums ......... run them through speakers and mic the "room sound" - then mix that in with the direct electonic drums.

In essence that gives you an ambient room sound (like overhead mics) - in which you are actually moving air. If done well - that can be 70% - 90% or you drum sound and then you dial in some of the snare/kick are needed (much like dialing in the close mics). Naturally, this does depend on the room sound - and an 8'x8' bedroon may not make the drums sound huge - adding some air normally helps.

Also - as indicated - electronic cymbals are the weakest electonic sound - so it is normally best to keep them very low in the mix ...... and some reverb can help spread the cymbal sound to make it less "harsh"

 

[RAMI]

I'd say 90% of the reason MIDI drums don't sound good is because a non-drummer programmed or "played" them. It's really hard to capture the subtlties of how a real drummer accents certain hi-hat hits during a beat, ghost notes, etc.....

I find, with a non-drummer, the drum track either ends up being too robotic and simple, or the other extreme, ridiculously busy and nowhere near what an actual drummer would play.

 

[Greg_L]

I'd say 90% of the reason MIDI drums don't sound good is because a non-drummer programmed or "played" them. It's really hard to capture the subtlties of how a real drummer accents certain hi-hat hits during a beat, ghost notes, etc.....

I find, with a non-drummer, the drum track either ends up being too robotic and simple, or the other extreme, ridiculously busy and nowhere near what an actual drummer would play.

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

+1000000000000000000000

 

[kcearl]

You can find midi files that were programmed by drummers, they are out there..and they are better

Im not sure about EZ but Superior by toontrack just sounds so sparse...after mucking about with a recording of real drums (Gregs) the bleed helps fill the void and gives the whole thing a fuller sound that you just dont get..even when superior has adjustable bleed

I have found that toontrack also miss some hits in generic midi files that other kits I have dont...not that I use generic much but they are still better at fills than I am (or prolly will ever be)


this is all a repeat of something i said in another thread so sorry if youve read it before..

that being said

Id suggest using a trigger pad, try to record without quantisizing and learn what a real drummer can actually acheive when playing, he's only got two arms and two feet...

if you carefully adjust the velocity it can also help with realism...even the best of drummers does not hit the skin the same way 100% of the time

if you think that just dropping in a midi file and compressing the kit a bit will give you a realistic result Id say just dump them and buy some loops...but if you take time there is no reason they cant be made to sound as realistic as any other software, ie guitar amps, bass amps etc etc

that being said, I dont record rock or much trad stuff so it seldom matters if mine arent too realistic

 

[kcearl]

Oh I also bought a book called 256 drum patterns or something like that

I havent used any of them, yet, but it was a good tutorial on how different styles work


Also reinforcing midi files with other samples is easy.....once you completed the songs drums just cut in paste the drums entire midi files to another track and use a sample host to stick an extra kick etc in...there are some great samples there that will help beef it up...or you could use another snare with more rattle to help it cut through a mix..

I use Live and it comes with a drum rack but there are plenty of drum sample hosts out there, just try the KVR website