HOT: MXL V67G Condenser Mic with FREE SHOCKMOUNT $99.00

  • Thread starter Thread starter aznwonderboy
  • Start date Start date
This sort of marketing is extremely un-ethical, and annoying.

You cannot tell me that suddenly, out of the blue, all these newbies decided to show up and discuss your site. Posts in this forum do NOT get this much traffic on a typical surf by.

Also, it is against the forum rules to post here as a dealer with retail merchandise. This forum is for PRIVATE individuals only, as in consumers.

I wouldn't have cared if there was a fess-up right away, but it seems clear that the obfuscation continues.

Argument over.

W.
 
dmGremlin said:
Hello and well met, SteveD!

<snip>

If you want to save yourself even more money you could go with a Mackie 1604 or 1642 VLZ pro (also far less of a headache to return and/or service if need be), both have bus and direct outs with their preamps. The VLZ pro series actually have slightly nicer preamps than on the 24x8 (the 'premium' XDR preamps). Or if you really want a slick combination, kind of the best of both worlds, you could get a 1642 VLZ pro, and with the money saved, get a DigiMAX LT (I'm not sure what DAW you're working must most have lightpipe in addition to analog) - so you'd have 8 extra channels with the snazzy digital preamp, 16 analog Mackie XDR preamps with basic eqs, and enough money left over to get that Mogami audio snake if you were so inclined.

What kind of DAW are you running? Most of the time I actually usually prefer to use the 'plug-in' EQs over the EQs on my mixer. Sometimes I'll use a low-cut filter on the board or something very very minor but being the anal engineer that I am, I prefer the precision of plug-in EQs even sometimes to the EQs on an SSL. Nothing like being able to figure out the 'note' that is ringing on a snare, punch that note into my studio calculater and get a frequency number, and then type that number into the EQ and nail it right away, but that's just my opinion. Some other engineers I know can do it all just as well with analog EQs.

I hope this helps.
D.M.,

I'm already using a Mackie 1604 VLZ Pro with the XDR pre-amps.

That only gives me 8 direct outs. Hardly enough for initial rhthym tracks if you're close mic-ing a drum kit. Being a drummer with a large kit, I use 9 mics just on the drums: Kick, Snare, 4 toms, 2 overheads, and Hi-Hat (I prefer to mic the Hi-Hat even if I don't always use it in the final mix). Why would I want to sub-mix into a DAW with unlimited virtual tracks?

I'm using balanced cables into the DAW on the first 8 direct outs of the Mackie 1604, and then mono cables inserted to the first click on the insert sends on channels 9-16. These channels get converted to balanced cables at the patchbay. This works, but I have no control over eq or fader on channels 9-16... just the trim.

This is why I'm considering an 8 channel pre-amp. Most stand-alone pre-amps costing more than $200.00 a piece will be of better quality than the internal XDR pre-amps.

The XDR's do an okay job, but it's hard to deny what high end pre-amps do for a vocal track, or for the kick or snare, and how 'bout the pristine clarity and shimmer it adds to cymbals?

I know the Presonus M80 is not that high end... I'm not sure I'm interested in that model. The True Precision 8 is getting great reviews, but no eqs. I do like two DIs and the Mid-Side capability on channels 1 and 2 though on the True. I'd love to try a Mid-Side set up for the overheads on the drums, but I don't own a bi-directional mic just yet.

The DAW? I'm using a PC built by DAWBOXES: 2.4ghz 800FSB, 1gb DDR-400 Kingston Ram, Intel D865 PERLL M/B, 40GB program drive, 120 Serial ATA audio drive, Plextor Premium 52x32x52 CDRW, with a 400w silent power supply and a silent heatsink fan, running on XP/home, tuned for audio. Rock solid!

I'm using Sonar 3.0 audio software with a Mackie Control Universal control surface with automated faders. The ADC is done through a MOTU 24I/O at 24 bit, 96000hz sampling rate. All mixing is done digitally on the desk using the Mackie control surface. The 1604 is only used for analog input.

I've already got a few grand invested in my recording gear. There's got to be a reason high end pre-amps cost as much as I've spent already on everything! Don't you think? It's because they make so much of a difference.

Now that I've said that... I won't be able to buy one from you... 'cause you know, I know what they're worth. There's no way I can get a rock bottom price from you now :) .

Sorry for getting off topic... but I DO own a Marshall V67. It sounds great. You can't buy a better vocal mic for $99 bucks!

_______
SteveD
www.5adayclub.net/music/
 
holy crap

Dear Waldo:

The only obfuscation going on here is coming from YOU. Who the hell do you think you are? I could just as easily accuse you of working for zZounds and trying to attack my credibility for fear of competition. Personally though, I think you're just a cynical and grumpy old man.

You are doing a disservice to this home recording community. I don't care how many posts that you have, in fact that just makes it worse because that means people might be more inclined to believe your inane babbling and arbitrary accusations.

I'll tell you what is unethical: attacking someone's personal credibility without making any effort to determine your own, or making any effort to assess the true facts of the situation. It's one thing to say to yourself 'I don't believe this, I'm not going to that website', but to post it here in your snide, manipulative, 'smear campaign' way undermines what public forums are (or should be) about. In fact, this type of hostile incitement is often referred to as 'trolling' and is generally against the rules of any public forum.

If you think you're correct here, why don't you complain to the BBS administrator? Petition to have the posts removed? Why don't you have the admin or moderator look up the user information of the three other users that you are also calling liars? It should be pretty simple to verify what's going on here one way or another that way. I think it's probably also against forum policy for a user to have duplicate accounts. Why don't you have all of us deleted? I'll tell you why. It's because you're talking out of your ass, and that's what smells. You're out of line here, buddy.

p.s. If you want to discuss this further, why don't you call me at my toll free number? I'd be more than happy to address any of your concerns directly.
 
Heya SteveD -

Are these forums always so hostile? 4 posts in and I'm already being attacked by trolls. Sheesh.

Thanks for the insight as to what gear you're using. Yeah, 8 tracks is definitely not enough for drums under most circumstances... though sometimes I will mic a drum kit with only 4 mics, generally I use 12-14 (always 2 on the kick, sometimes 2 on the snare, hihat, 4 toms, room/overheads, a 3d mic literally over-the-head, and sometimes a separate mic for the ride).
One thing you could do (if you felt so inclined) is to chain together two 1604s. That was what I was thinking about doing at first, but I wanted something big and snazzy to impress clients with (and it works too). Although one thing you might consider doing is to use your submix busses as the outputs to your DAW, unless you've got them already used for something else. That will at least give you four more channels with eqs and faders... that is unless you believe that there is an unacceptable amount of added noise if you do it that way (while technically there is, it's so minimal that even someone as anal about noise as I am doesn't worry about it).
About the whole preamp / no-preamp thing, this gets into a kind of subjective conversation that I can't really give you any definitive answers about. My take on it (though I don't have any gold records to my name yet, so my opinion is only worth what you've paid for it) since I've watched over the entire process from tracking to release more than a few times is on one hand, it's better to have the best possible signal being printed... but on the other hand once your mix goes to the mastering lab, the mastering lab tends to even everything out, making the difference between a vocal (or anything else) tracked with a nice pre-amp and that wasn't a perhaps immaterial difference in sonic quality.
In fact, I have on tape somewhere (I really should post this to my forums too so you can see what I mean) somewhere where I had a session that I was doing some work on a vocal that had been tracked at 'The Mothership' : Steve Vai's studio in L.A. on their snazzy API board, Avalon pre-amps, and AKG-C12 tube mic. Basically I had to punch in one word in a phrase. I figured I would try and EQ it to match it as best I could and try to bury and differences left-over in the mix... and since it was only one word it would probably go by pretty quickly. I used my one of my tube mics (brand omitted to appease the troll) going straight into my Mackie 24x8, and the vocal matched, well, pretty damn close (with no EQ btw). So close in fact, that I solo'd the track, put it on CD (just the vocal track with the phrase that had the punch-in), took it to M.I. to let some engineering students listen to it and see if they could figure out where the punch-in was, and NOBODY COULD TELL! It took the teacher 3 passes before she could figure it out, but none of the students in three different classes were able to tell.
Now, I will admit that there was a very very subtle difference that I could tell (well, of course I could, I did the punch) but after the rest of the tracks had been added, FX added, and then the mix taken to the mastering lab, well you get the picture.

Now I'm not saying that I don't hear a difference between normal mackie preamps and nice snazzy preamps like the Avalon, but one of the points I'm trying to make about the whole subjectivity issue is that after listening to so many mixes, mixes after mastering, and regular commercial CDs, the end results are all so wildly different from one another (well, to me at any rate) that any choice of gear is going to be a matter of personal taste.
This is one reason I'm hesitant to reccomend any high end pre-amps (or even a presonus M-80) for someone building a home studio. One thing to keep in mind also is that if you only have enough $$ to buy pre-amps to make your cymbals shimmer, but not enough for the whole kit - that shimmering might imbalance the rest of your track when you take your mix to get mastered. If you're going to get good pre-amps, make sure you get enough to cover as many inputs as you use simultaniously.
My advice though, is to make sure you listen to anything that you are thinking about buying and make sure to consider the 'big picture' when you're listening. If all a $3000 preamp is going to give your final master is a mild difference in color, is it really worth it? Also, if personally you can't tell any major difference between preamps, keep in mind that there are many steps before something gets released and the extent that you're going to be able to be picky in your mixing is the same extent that you're going to be able to picky in distinguishing tones between preamps.

On the other hand, if you've got the cash to get the nice preamps, good mic cables and wiring (suggested brand omitted to appease the troll, but you'll find it in all the major studios), then it might make your mixing less of a headache and your mix might be somewhat easier to master - even if the potential of the quality of the final results with or without the nice gear is basically (tone/coloration differences aside) the same. It's also a good idea if you want to have those names in your studio so you can charge more per hour.

Sorry if I'm rambling extensively and causing any confusion. I guess in summary, don't take my word or anyone else's word for what 'sounds good'. I've heard great mixes that were made on a cassette 4-track and then run through a finalizer (not that the finalizer is at all my preferred choice for mastering btw), as well as crappy mixes that were made on a Neve console with all the trimmings... but you need to work with whatever you feel comfortable working with.

btw; Nice computer. ;) I have one that is a little more than half that fast that has handled 80 track projects with gobs of effects. You should be _quite_ comfortable on that machine even if everything goes dvd-audio.
 
Sure thing, Waldo. What exactly makes you so uncomfortable? Maybe you can share with the rest of your folks here so they can know how to spot 'bad smells'.

Should have thought of the old saying 'Be careful what you ask for', hey Mr. Insults?

I don't need to prove nothing to you, you're the one trying to sell something.

W.
 
You have everything to prove, buddy - you're making the accusations here.

You're only further proving my point by not being able to back up anything that you're saying.
 
Step off buddy, you really don't want to play that game with me, and I'm not interested in playing with you.

W.
 
dmGremlin said:
Heya SteveD -

<snip>

One thing to keep in mind also is that if you only have enough $$ to buy pre-amps to make your cymbals shimmer, but not enough for the whole kit - that shimmering might imbalance the rest of your track when you take your mix to get mastered. If you're going to get good pre-amps, make sure you get enough to cover as many inputs as you use simultaniously.
My advice though, is to make sure you listen to anything that you are thinking about buying and make sure to consider the 'big picture' when you're listening. If all a $3000 preamp is going to give your final master is a mild difference in color, is it really worth it? Also, if personally you can't tell any major difference between preamps, keep in mind that there are many steps before something gets released and the extent that you're going to be able to be picky in your mixing is the same extent that you're going to be able to picky in distinguishing tones between preamps.

On the other hand, if you've got the cash to get the nice preamps, good mic cables and wiring (suggested brand omitted to appease the troll, but you'll find it in all the major studios), then it might make your mixing less of a headache and your mix might be somewhat easier to master - even if the potential of the quality of the final results with or without the nice gear is basically (tone/coloration differences aside) the same. It's also a good idea if you want to have those names in your studio so you can charge more per hour.

Sorry if I'm rambling extensively and causing any confusion. I guess in summary, don't take my word or anyone else's word for what 'sounds good'. I've heard great mixes that were made on a cassette 4-track and then run through a finalizer (not that the finalizer is at all my preferred choice for mastering btw), as well as crappy mixes that were made on a Neve console with all the trimmings... but you need to work with whatever you feel comfortable working with.

btw; Nice computer. ;) I have one that is a little more than half that fast that has handled 80 track projects with gobs of effects. You should be _quite_ comfortable on that machine even if everything goes dvd-audio.
Thanks for the reply D.M.,

Food for thought.

We really should start another thread 'cause we've gotten way off topic, but maybe there are some who are keeping up with us and interested in this topic as well. If so, please post something to say that we should continue, or if you think this has gone far enough, I guess you can tell us to "get a room".

Anyway, I will certainly listen before I purchase any pre-amps.

Are you saying you don't think high-end pre-amps are worth the price? Why in the world do so many in the industry own them? How do the pre-amp companies get away with charging those prices? I've heard 'em in high end studios, but to your point, it's a cumulative effect. If every piece of equipment in the signal chain is top drawer, that's what you'll hear. Your sound can only be as good as your weakest link. A $3000.00 pre-amp, is not going make my cables, or digital converters sound any better. And if the difference realized from a high-end pre-amp is in the audible range that my other gear can't hand-off down the line, then yes it's a waste of money. I'll probably end up buying a decent mic pre from someplace that offers a full refund if returned in 15 or 30 days, so that I can run some comparison tests at home on my own gear.

Much of what I've read suggests the pre-amp is THE most important point in the signal chain. I'm sure that the manufacturers of digital audio converters would disagree;) .

Regarding the DAW, I can record 130 tracks with a low buffer size setting returning 2.7ms latency before hearing any signs of strain. but I could be happier with the performance after plug-ins are added.

What audio software and digital interface are you using?

_______
SteveD
www.5adayclub.net/music/
 
Last edited:
Ok...speaking as a "newbie," isn't this the wrong place for this thread?

This is for SELLING by PRIVATE INDIVIDUALS.

There's no problem with someone discussing gear options with a dealer, but not here.
 
Well, there's the answer to your question, SteveD. I suppose we can continue this conversation somewhere else on these forums, or on my forums: http://forums.dm-gremlin.com

Isn't there supposed to be like, a moderator or something to handle moving posts / filtering trolls and such? If there is, he/she is mysteriously absent. Yeah, there's a little 'report this post to a moderator' button. Anybody else see that?

Also just to set the record straight, Christopher - I don't like to think of myself (or be called) a 'dealer', especially when it comes to discussing audio gear or engineering. My primary source of income is as a recording engineer in my studio. I just also happen to sell stuff. It would be wrong to presume that I'm discussing gear I use in my studio that I use professionally and to record my personal album from the perspective of a 'dealer'.
 
Last edited:
dmGremlin said:
Well, there's the answer to your question, SteveD. I suppose we can continue this conversation somewhere else on these forums, or on my forums: http://forums.dm-gremlin.com

Isn't there supposed to be like, a moderator or something to handle moving posts / filtering trolls and such? If there is, he/she is mysteriously absent. Yeah, there's a little 'report this post to a moderator' button. Anybody else see that?

Also just to set the record straight, Christopher - I don't like to think of myself (or be called) a 'dealer', especially when it comes to discussing audio gear or engineering. My primary source of income is as a recording engineer in my studio. I just also happen to sell stuff. It would be wrong to presume that I'm discussing gear I use in my studio that I use professionally and to record my personal album from the perspective of a 'dealer'.
Ok... Let's move this discussion and return this thread to it's original topic.

Here's a thread that's already discussing the value of mic pre-amps.

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?threadid=77782&highlight=pre+amps+money

D.M. - see you there or send me an email.

Back on topic...

Can anyone else post their thoughts on the MXL V67? Worth the money? ... or save your money 'til you can afford a better mic?

Peace,
_______
SteveD
www.5adayclub.net/music/
 
Back
Top