Home theater with PA, need more stuff!

[Vigilante]

Hey fellas, I basically have a question to request a certain amp, but here is the story.

My dad gave me his old PA they toured with, models and such don't matter. But anyway, I took the audio output from my DVD and such and put it in the PA to get some big sound, it's fun, we have Xbox parties, watch cool movies. The only problem is I have to go turn on the PA and set the volume by hand. Another problem is I only get mono this way.
I'd like to step this up one notch and at least have stereo sound to the speakers. The head doesn't do stereo, it has like 8 channels but no stereo input/output.
I don't know how many watts the speakers can handle, but it has like a 1 inch horn driver and then a big old 16" driver.

What I'd like to find is another amp, one that I can do stereo output, and have a remote control on. I don't need dolby digital decoding, I don't need 7 channel capability, I don't need a "bundle" with a receiver and all the speakers. I just basically want to buy an amp to drive those PA speakers, but have stereo, and remote control. Maybe even stick the amp in the same space as the DVD/VCR fits in.

Surprisingly, this seems to be a pretty hard find, a stereo amp with remote control. However, I did come across this Pyle unit:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=248-484

It has remote control, stereo, a sub out, radio receiver, and even a couple 1/4" mic inputs. At 800 watts per channel, 2ohm, I think it might match the speakers OK, if not a bit underpowered. At least, 800W is plenty when my couch is 6 feet away. But then it says it's 3000W, so I don't get how all that works. I don't know if my speakers use 2ohm or 4ohm, If anybody can explain how I match all this, I'd appreciate it.

The thing is, I know nothing about Pyle, and as far as I've found, there really isn't any other product I've discovered yet that does the same thing.

So my questions are:
Anybody heard of Pyle or know if their stuff is good? (I am also interested in their speakers and other amps and bass stuff)
Does this amp look good?
Why is it 3000W if its max is 2x800@2ohm?
How can I tell how many watts my speakers handle, or the ohms they use?
Is there a better product for stereo amp with remote control for home theater?
If that has sub out, does that mean I just plug in a sub? Or do I need another amp for the sub signal? Or maybe a self-powered sub?
Do I want my amp to surpass the capabilities of my speakers? Or do I want my speakers to be able to handle more than the amp? Somebody told me I always want to get an amp that is more powerful than the speakers, but I don't know.


Thanks for the help in sorting this out. I suppose if it's going to cost me $200-$400 for an amp, I might as well just buy a 7 speaker receiver package, yes? I just don't like those bundles because it's hard to replace one piece if it goes bad, I'd rather piece it together. But I also don't care about surround that much, I'd be fine with stereo if it's cranking sound. The PA speakers are pretty loud in my living room, on the PA head, the volume knobs (channel knob and main vol) are just barely, barely, over the off position. The amp is hardly having to work with the volume knobs that low. Now I just need a remote control, and stereo support.

 

[KineticSound]

You'd first want to find out the load from the speaker cabinets. 2ohms would be very rare outside of a custom bass cabinet. Most would run at 4 or 8 ohms.

The speaker load will determine how much wattage is drawn from the amp. For example, if an amp is rated at 800W at 4ohms, then an 8ohm cabinet will draw 1/2 the wattage, or 400W. A 16ohm cabinet will draw 1/4 the wattage, or 200W.

The biggest impact the overall wattage will have is the clarity at high volume. More power before distorting.

I've never heard of Pyle; can't speak to its reliability or sound. Seems awful cheap for that much power. I think most people on this board would be more familiar with Crown, Mackie, or QSC.

 

[mattr]

Anybody heard of Pyle or know if their stuff is good? (I am also interested in their speakers and other amps and bass stuff)

Never heard of them before, and from a glance I don't think I ever plan on buying any of their stuff.

Does this amp look good?

I'm doubtful.

The customer reviews look suitably damning. The one which gives it 0 stars talks about the quality, whereas the person who thought it was good concentrated on more important matters such as "The bright LED luminescence is great with my keyboard at night."

Why is it 3000W if its max is 2x800@2ohm?
How can I tell how many watts my speakers handle, or the ohms they use?

Most speakers are 8 ohm or sometimes 4 ohm. Impedance is the resistance of the speaker, or 'how much load the speaker puts on the amp'.

The total impedance of a set if speakers/drivers connected in series is simply the sum of all the impedances.

However when you connect two speakers in parallel (the most common way to run several speakers off of one amp channel) something strange happens... the impedance drops! If you connect two 8ohm speakers in parallel then the total impedance is 4ohms. It took me a while to grip but there's some good analogies floating around the internet which are helpful. Google is your friend.

Amps can usually handle 8ohm and 4ohm loads fine, but its not advisable to even try running 2ohm loads on any amp unless the manufacturer explicitly states that it can cope with it for any amount of time. Even though the specs of this amp include 2ohm power ratings, I would be highly doubtful if it can deliver such promises.

As impedance drops, the power output of the amp increases. So its a toss-up between power-output and putting too much load on the amp.

Power ratings are always difficult to compare and trust. Manufacturers all quote different figures and don't always specify which... the main figures are: peak, program, RMS, PMPO, and continuous. Peak and PMPO are a load rubbish because they are the maximum power that the amp can handle for very short times (under lab conditions) before permanent damage occurs. RMS, continuous and program are far more accurate as they give an idea of what the amp can realistically deliver for an extended period of time.

Some amps claim 800w peak, but in reality can only deliver 100w. I assume that is similar with this '3000w'. Try to find an actual 3000w power amp and you'll see they cost a good few thousand $$$.

Its not worth getting hung up hugely over wattages anyway. Even 50w can be loud. Numbers don't mean everything.

Is there a better product for stereo amp with remote control for home theater?

I'm sure there is, but you need to ask yourself. Is this really a PA or is it a hi-fi system? You won't find any PA amps with remote controls (apart from posh ones with networked loudspeaker management), but I get the feeling what you are looking for is more a hi-fi receiver.

If that has sub out, does that mean I just plug in a sub? Or do I need another amp for the sub signal? Or maybe a self-powered sub?

Usually this is a line-level signal from an internal crossover which can either be fed into another amp or into a powered-sub. Ideally you want a proper crossover so you can adjust the crossover frequency, otherwise you're stuck with what the amp throws at you.

Do I want my amp to surpass the capabilities of my speakers? Or do I want my speakers to be able to handle more than the amp? Somebody told me I always want to get an amp that is more powerful than the speakers, but I don't know.

You want the amp to be more powerful than the speakers, but then never turn it up far enough to damage the speakers. This gives you headroom and means you never push the amp far enough for distortion levels to be increase, or even further where the amp becomes overloaded or begins to clip and as a result can damage the amp itself and your speakers.

Thanks for the help in sorting this out. I suppose if it's going to cost me $200-$400 for an amp,

I suggest the Samson Servo series for well-priced but high-quality lower powered amps. The Behringer (yes, Behringer) Europower amps (EP1500 and EP2500) are also very good for slightly higher powered applications, still at good prices.


I'm sure somewhere out there is some obscure 1u unit which can act as a remote control volume attenuator. Its the kinda thing which could be some fun DIY project with a practical use at the end of it, but who knows, there might be one on the front cover of next month's studiospares catalog. I could be wrong.

 

[suprstar]

Pyle is junk, in the car audio world anyway.. They were better in the 80's, but now they're as crappy as Pyramid. Pyle and Pyramid are notorious for inflating their rated power by about 5x for marketing purposes.. At 2 ohms, 800x2? That means about 160x2 RMS, at 2 ohms.... And your cab's are prolly 8 ohms, so you'd be lucky to get 75rms per side..

I wouldn't touch anything Pyle with a 10' pole, and I'm definately NOT a gear snob, I own a ton of behringer, phonic, etc. It might be fun to mess around with, but I'd just get a regular home receiver. There's no reason you can't hook a home receiver to your PA speakers, and it'd prolly be a lot cleaner sound than some old PA amp. You really need 3000w in your living room? (not that that amp can actually push it) Or even 1000? I got a 500w 5.1 system that's crystal clear and will make your ears bleed!

 

[Vigilante]

Alright, sounds like I'll skip on the Pyle, thanks for the educating.

I guess I just want to use the speakers cause I have them. They only have 1/4" jacks, no banana posts or anything.
I just wanted to be able to turn them on and change volume with remote, and add stereo capability. So therefore, a stereo amp with remote control, Pyle was the only one I could find.

I could get a receiver, but like I said I don't need surround sound, or 5 or 7 speakers, or decoding, any of that. I also do not need it for sound for everything I do. In other words, I only want to turn it on for the games or an odd movie, not for TV or anything else. That's why it won't be my primary receiver, just an auxilliary sound path for an occasional boost.
I think the speakers can handle a lot, based on the volume of the matched PA head, so to get an amp that surpasses the capabilities of the speakers, might be quite expensive. I don't know.

Can anybody recommend a stereo amp with remote control? I'll keep looking as well. I'll even accept a receiver, I guess, if it fits my needs and is not too much overkill.

Thanks

 

[suprstar]

You can always take a regular 1/4" TS cable, cut one end off, expose the wire, and do whatever you want with it. Most home receivers have the terminals where you push the little button and stick the raw wire in the hole. And like I said, I wouldnt try to max out your speakers, your head will asplode! A strong home receiver will push plenty o power, dont worry about that.