Home Recording of Vocal and Piano

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ss944

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hello - my first post here --
my kids(and a friend's kid) are learning vocal and piano. i've been tasked to start recording them together at home.. I would also be recording their recitals as well -- I have absolutely no clue about vocal recording. I have received a couple of different advice and one of them was to get a personal recorder like zoom h4N or a tascam dr-40 and then use it to record at home and at the recitals as well. Is this a good place to start? Can i get a personal recorder and start without a computer? would this make the process simple? which recorder would i choose? the tascam or the zoom? -- i personally am overwhelmed with the amount of information that is out there and also i am starting from scratch here :) .. would i need to buy anything else?


Appreciate any guidance here - i have a recital coming up in the next 2 weeks - so appreciate any help here .


thank you
 
Simplest was is a small portable recorder.

There's a difference between one of these that has inbuilt microphones (where you have to put the device in the optimum position - and is that even possible?) and one to which you connect microphones, thus giving you the option of putting the microphone/s in more appropriate spots - ie. one near the singer's mouth, another one (or more) near the piano. The ones you mention have inbuilt mics.

All depends how much you want to get into it and what level of quality you're looking for.

You'd never get stellar results, but in the hands of someone who knew what they were doing I'm sure adequate results are possible with either device you mention.... that person isn't you, however, so you'll have to deal with positioning, room issues (pianos are very loud and hard to record well in your basic household room because of reflections) and various other recording travails...

Tell us about the room/s and piano to be used and what, specifically, you want to achieve.
 
At home we have a Baldwin console piano that will be used for the recording at home. the piano is placed in a 15x28 room -- the quality i am expecting doesnt have to be a professional studio quality recording -- i understand these are kids that are starting out -- but i want to avoid unwanted noises and make sure to capture their voices/the piano clearly..

Thank you
 
There are two things to consider... can you put a single device in whatever position gets the best overall recording of both voice and piano - experimentation will be necessary -we're not recording a seasoned performer here, we're recording a child, so they're not necessarily going to be able to balance voice and piano levels - so that best position might not be the easiest place to position the device... but where there's a will, there's a way... and you may have to offer some constructive engineering advice (play more softly, sing more loudly etc.) from time to time..

Secondly, reflections from the room - having the piano away from walls etc. and doing whatever you can to deaden the room will have a beneficial effect - also bearing in mind you don't want to have to turn the place into a recording studio wannabe room every time you want to record something.
 
Thank you - would i benefit from getting an additional microphone for the vocals? between the tascam dr-40 and zoom h4n - which one would i choose?

i can possibly set up some background material(muslin) around the piano ( have lots of photo backgrounds and stands) -- if that would help.
 
I don't have experience with either of those two machiens.

To answer your question about a mic... maybe... it depends.... possibly. You might get good enough results without it... hard to say until you try. Depends what you're expecting too.

Just don't paint yourself into a corner and buy something that won't do the job that you can't later adapt (by, say, adding another microphone) to improve if you need to.

Once you've recorded the kids, then what? You're not going to play it back from the machine, you're going to have to transfer it (probably) to a computer, do some basic work on it (possibly) then render it to something playable... in that sense you're going to have to play with computers at some stage.

The option therefore exists to start there... get an audio interface and a couple of mics... although that's a higher learning curve... that's one way most people here would approach it because most are recording "seriously" and are after quality.

You can also get larger portable devices that don't have inbuilt microphones that you can attach microphones to that might be easier to work with. That's another way. Everything depends...

Perhaps see if you can get either of your choices on a trial / return basis and do some basic testing and see how you go. In a quick scan I'm not seeing a huge difference and you can add external mics to both. Someone else who knows them better might chime in sometime soon...

And to dampen sound reflections you'll need something thicker than muslin - again, without knowing the room, it's hard to say... perhaps it won't be necessary...
 
Getting a decent recording of piano is a challenge in itself. Recording voice is easier but a child's voice is trickier because they can be weak and difficult to get a good level from (but maybe yours are little belters?). Then, experienced singers develop a "mic technique" yours won't have that.

One solution to the kiddy singer is an attached "tie tack" microphone (do NOT FCS let them HOLD a mic!) but they will get distracted and walk off with it!

Balance. One piano, one child at a time? You could do this with two mics but you really need two on the jo' which in practice means a 4 mic input audio interface, minimum. Of course more singers, more mics........Or!
My fall back position. Two capacitor (aka condenser) mics of the "pencil" style (called "SDC"s) arranged as a stereo pair. Google "XY Co-incident stereo recording". This just requires a two input interface, a stereo "bar" for the mics and a suitable stand.

XY stereo works best in a good acoustic space, previous advice re acoustic materials should be heeded.

I have recorded Gang Shows and Am Drams with their little treasures in them many years ago...Do you have a therapist?

Dave.
 
You can go complicated . . . or you can go one step at a time and start easy.

My thinking is go for something like the Zoom. Its mikes are pretty good, and you can get reasonable quality.

You will have to experiment a bit with positioning to get a good balance between piano and voice.

At home you have degrees of flexibility. At recitals you can record from the audience, or maybe arrnage to have the zoom up closer to the stage.

Maybe you will discover that the Zoom is not delivering what you want. It's handy to have around. Burt beyond Zoom is a level of complexity that you enter at your own risk, but worth it if yo want to do more serious recording than simply keeping a record.
 
I say the Zoom h4n is the way to go, to start out with, for you. It has the capability to plug in two additional mics if you decide, after working with it for a while, that a vocal-directed mic is needed.
You are not going to be want to be doing a lot of fussing and diddling around when kids are playing/singing, as it will just distract them, annoy the piano teacher, teh audience at a recital, etc. As already said, you'll have toplay around with positioning using the 2 built-in mics on the recorder. Get the hot-shoe adapter for it as I assume you have a camera tripod you can use to adjust where it is in relation to the player/singer.
 
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Go with the Tascam Dr-40. I just got one and it's awesome. There are no on effects on the Zoom as far as I know.
The Dr-40 has multiple reverb effects to choose from and they sound great on instruments and vocals.
And all you need are the built-in mics.
 
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