Solved Holophonic recording

[danny.guitar]

Recently I've been doing binaural recordings but I hear Holophonic recordings are much more realistic. I've tried to read a lot into it but most websites just say the same thing.

I don't really understand exactly how to go about doing any holophonic recording.

They say it works like a hologram does, but with sound. Something to do with mixing an audio signal with another "interference" signal...

I've tried understanding it but it just goes way over my head. If someone smarter than me can give me some ideas on how to actually go about doing this, please tell me. I've yet to find anything that explains how they are actually made.

Ordinary holograms are produced by mixing reflected laser light with a second beam hitting an object from another angle; the resulting interference pattern of the two waves is what’s actually recorded on film. Expose the film to the same wavelength of light again, and a 3D image emerges from the interference pattern. Italian inventor Hugo Zuccarelli wondered whether a similar process could be used to record sounds, since after all, sound waves can form interference patterns with each other just as light waves can. His holophonic process starts with a type of binaural dummy head, but it reportedly records the interference pattern formed by mixing the sound with an inaudible, digitally superimposed reference signal. Zuccarelli believes that the human auditory apparatus, when listening to sounds, adds the same signal to the input, effectively decoding the interference patterns previously recorded.

 

[bennychico11]

Not sure if I'm smarter, but here's some of the research I was able to dig up about it awhile back (I've taken most of this from a former post of mine).

Holophonic is developed by a guy named Hugo Zuccarelli. It's based on the same principle as projected holograms. Much like how holograms use a reference beam he believes the ear and brain uses it's own reference beam.
External sounds are recorded with synthesized reference sounds and the brain/ear provides the second reference beam when listening back to it...effectively decoding the original signal and reproducing all the original ambient conditions.
Some people have found that other senses kick in when listening to holophonic sound...for example, smelling sulphur when the match is lit. Or in another example floating around the net, the warm breath of a woman whispering in your ear.

Holophonic sound acts three dimensional by creating phase interference patterns. Hearing impaired people also report actually hearing when playing back these recordings....as well, blind people report visual imagery.

The problem is holophonic sound, like binaural, loses most spatial reproduction when played through normal speakers. Although, Zuccarelli designed some sort of special speaker system that allows everyone in a crowd to hear the same holophonic recording.
I also don't think it's really known what kind of "reference beam" the ear puts off. Some say it may be very very high, inaudible frequencies...others think it may be pink noise or something similar. Unfortunately I don't think it's easy to reproduce and I believe it takes some special equipment to record the sounds.

Sound Ideas makes some SFX CDs using this process that you can purchase. I have a few samples on my computer if you want to hear it. It's kinda creepy.

 

[torque91]

I remember two ways of creating 3 dimensional sound that I learned in my college audio class. One involved electronically manipulating the phase of a sound split into stereo separation. The other involved capturing the changes in phase caused by the human head and ears as a sound enters each ear differently from a certain direction. This was accomplished by using a dummy head with left and right mics placed inside where the eardrums would normally be. This method required the listener to monitor the recording with headphones to accurately reproduce the sound location. I believe that the head and ear dimensions had to be an exact match to the listener's to achieve the proper psychological response to the sound.
Oh yeah, then there was Q Sound. Anybody remember that? Basically the first technique I described using computers to control the phase.

Sound Ideas makes some SFX CDs using this process that you can purchase. I have a few samples on my computer if you want to hear it. It's kinda creepy.

I would love to hear that!!!!!

 

[whjr15]

I have a few samples on my computer if you want to hear it. It's kinda creepy.

I'd like to hear it if it isnt too much trouble.

 

[danny.guitar]

So I'm guessing it's just not something to try myself? Because it sounds really complicated and like I'd need some special and (probably expensive) equipment.

If I just knew what kind of interference signal they use and how they record it, then maybe I could try it.

But for now I think I'll just stick to Binaural. It seems to do the job.

I'm sure some of you have heard the Holophonic "matchbox" recording, if not, check it out (on headphones).

I may try doing a similar recording using Binaural and compare the 2.

Here's the link to the Holophonic one:

 

[Sloan]

this reminds me of a track i was working on earlier this month. I copied the guitar track and reversed the phase and it doesn't sound like it's coming from the speakers, it sounds like it's coming from somewhere in the room your listening in. it's really wierd, but i liked it. i think some of it has to do with everything being recorded live and some of the bleed is phase reversed or something. i dunno.

 

[whjr15]

I'm sure some of you have heard the Holophonic "matchbox" recording, if not, check it out (on headphones).

Man, that is pretty damn creepy!

 

[bennychico11]

I uploaded the matchstick one again because I couldn't get danny.guitar's to work...so if no one else could
also there's one of a woman's voice (in Italian I believe?) which is pretty creepy.
http://www.soundclick.com/bennychico11


Again, listening with headphones is the best way to hear the effect.

danny.guitar-
I've never been able to find an article about how the process is actually done step by step, so I can't help you there. It may be that the technique is very hard/expensive to undertake and it may also be a process that is protected by copyright (much how the secret ingredients to Coca-Cola isn't shared)

this reminds me of a track i was working on earlier this month. I copied the guitar track and reversed the phase and it doesn't sound like it's coming from the speakers, it sounds like it's coming from somewhere in the room your listening in. it's really wierd, but i liked it. i think some of it has to do with everything being recorded live and some of the bleed is phase reversed or something. i dunno.

yes, this is just a simple phase trick which a lot of times can harm your mix rather than help. Try playing the two guitar tracks back and summing them in mono. What happens? They disappear.

This is just one of the tricks that "stereo enhancers" use to make a mix sound wider

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

I'm kinda suprised that no one has mentioned Wave Art's Panorama yet.

http://www.wavearts.com/Panorama5.html

Thsi can be used to build these kind of effects. However, the results for any of this kind of playing with image is limited. It always sounds better in headphones than it does in a real room, the effect in a real room can depend greatly on listener position and other acoustic factors.

But if you're looking for an easy and relatively inexpensive way of playing around with 3D sound out of a stereo source, something like this is the way to go.

G.

 

[torque91]

I didn't realize that Pink Floyd's "Final Cut" was holophonic. I knew there was some interesting stereo stuff going on there but I had never listened with headphones until last night. Too bad "Animals" wasn't holophonic.

 

[ecktronic]

this reminds me of a track i was working on earlier this month. I copied the guitar track and reversed the phase and it doesn't sound like it's coming from the speakers, it sounds like it's coming from somewhere in the room your listening in. it's really wierd, but i liked it. i think some of it has to do with everything being recorded live and some of the bleed is phase reversed or something. i dunno.

That would pdoruce no sound atall unlesss you nudged one of the tracks, as reversing the phase of the duplicate cancells out any signal.

Eck

 

[bennychico11]

That would pdoruce no sound atall unlesss you nudged one of the tracks, as reversing the phase of the duplicate cancells out any signal.

Eck

not if he had them panned L/R...it just creates a weird phasing thing. Again, this is how stereo enhancers accomplish some of their trickery.

if you nudged a mono channel that had been reversed, you don't get the effect he heard. You actually get a phase problem....much like you would hear when using two mics on something

 

[danny.guitar]

I'm kinda suprised that no one has mentioned Wave Art's Panorama yet.

http://www.wavearts.com/Panorama5.html

Thsi can be used to build these kind of effects. However, the results for any of this kind of playing with image is limited. It always sounds better in headphones than it does in a real room, the effect in a real room can depend greatly on listener position and other acoustic factors.

But if you're looking for an easy and relatively inexpensive way of playing around with 3D sound out of a stereo source, something like this is the way to go.

G.

I've looked into it before. Not really the same thing. Most software that uses HRTF can't reproduce it even close to how a true binaural/holophonic recording does. It sounds like a good stereo recording at best, imo.

 

[danny.guitar]

it may also be a process that is protected by copyright

Yea I think the guy who came up with it (Zuccarelli) has a patent on it, so maybe that would explain why there's no info on how it's done.

 

[ecktronic]

not if he had them panned L/R...it just creates a weird phasing thing. Again, this is how stereo enhancers accomplish some of their trickery.

if you nudged a mono channel that had been reversed, you don't get the effect he heard. You actually get a phase problem....much like you would hear when using two mics on something

Interesting.
Cheers Benni.
Eck

 

[schulein]

Recently I've been doing binaural recordings but I hear Holophonic recordings are much more realistic. I've tried to read a lot into it but most websites just say the same thing.

I don't really understand exactly how to go about doing any holophonic recording.

They say it works like a hologram does, but with sound. Something to do with mixing an audio signal with another "interference" signal...

I've tried understanding it but it just goes way over my head. If someone smarter than me can give me some ideas on how to actually go about doing this, please tell me. I've yet to find anything that explains how they are actually made.

Hi from Bob Schulein,

I have developed an experimental binaural audio with HD video technique for capturing a point of view "you are there" experience from a musical performance. I call the process ImmersAV, in that you become immersed in an audio/video experience.

If interested, I have uploaded two examples to You Tube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97M1-fCBkx4

and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LWoGWvVG00

There are about 10 others examples as well. If you search You Tube for ImmersAV you can find them all.
Some examples have an audio video sync issue due to the You Tube up load process. I am currently working on a solution for that problem.

Other postings will be coming as I have ramped up my production schedule.

My interest at this point is in obtaining feedback as to the entertainment value of such productions.

I have many yet to be tried production techniques involving multiple video and audio points of view, for the future.

Also if you download the HQ version from You Tube and use Quick Time to create an
i pod file version, the productions will be preserved with good audio and video fidelity.

All comments and suggestions welcome.

Bob Schulein

 

[Ricklh]

I did some binaural recording last night, just talking, walking around the room and playing a bit of acoustic guitar and the effect played back in the headphones was pretty darn amazing. Then I stepped out of the room I was in, into the hallway and asked my wife a question, who was in another room nearby, and the mics picked up the distance ambience of her reply - the playback sounded so real in the headphones, it was freaky, a "look-over-your-shoulder" freaky! I wonder if binaural recording is useful for small-setting acoustic performances of a small trio? Maybe not so much for speaker-listening but in the 'phones would be pretty cool, I imagine.