Hollow/tinny sounding vocals (not sure where to post)

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adobeaudition3

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Apologies if this is in the wrong place, but I've been trying to fix this issue and can't seem to figure it out.

I've been trying to finish a song for the past week, and each time I try, something new gets in the way..this time it's the sound of the recording. It was fine one day, then the next day I returned to it and the sound of the recording is hollow, especially on the F's and S's. Not even sure if hollow/tinny is the right way to put it.

I'm not sure if it's the microphone, the power source, or the interface that's causing the problem. Any suggestions as to what it could be? Let me know any additional information you need, and thanks in advance!
 
You need to tell us all about your setup. And you need to post an MP3 of the problem.
 
for sure, I have to post two more times so I can include the link!
 
the mp3 included is just a rough version, just to show the difference in quality. It seemed to get slightly better when I reduced the input gain, but not much.

setup:
Samson C Valve tube pre amp ( Samson Audio - C-valve )
M Audio Fast Track interface ( Amazon.com: M-Audio Fast Track US44010 USB Audio Interface with GT-Player Express Software: Musical Instruments )
Sterling Audio ST77 ( :: Sterling Audio :: )

mp3:
zSHARE - curse-test.mp3 (just a warning for your ears, volumes are up really high)

The quality change I'm talking about occurs after "steal armor on my chest but they're aiming.."

Thanks again!
 
Just my opinion but the Samson may be your week link.
 
Thanks, yea turning it down doesn't do much. It still sounds hollow compared to the vocals before it. I've tried messing with the knobs on the Samson with little luck.. I'm not too knowledgeable on home recording, I've always done my recording elsewhere, so I'm not sure which knobs I should be adjusting and in which direction.
 
Your problem may be a result of improper microphone placement and your recording space may need some tinkering.
 
I haven't changed the placement/recording space from the line before that until then. But I did try different distances/locations etc. I'm guessing a visit to Guitar Center is in my near future..any other suggestions would be appreciated. If not, thanks anyways!
 
Looks like a nice mic. 134SPL is not invulnerable, but should be sufficient for that source. Does the subject MOVE when they say that phrase? Changes in orientation to the mic will change how the mic sounds on a source. Do they back away, move off to the side, other quirks. Recalling some studio pick of Mr. Tyler from the stones with some blue plastic thing from the mic to his upper lip to ensure that he maintains an orientation to said mic.

As far as the sample, there appears to be some clipping at that point. Which can happen in post when you mix things. i.e. down the dB of every track before mixing. Or some other edit to manage the dynamic range of that segment. Compression / hard limiting / ???. It just sounds like clipping or compression artifacts to me, which can be managed in post. But it's very short lived. No real change in tone, so probably not the mic.
 
I've listened to it 4 times and I fail to hear anything that resembles "hollowness" after "steal armor on my chest but they're aiming..".

:confused:
 
60's guy hollow may be the wrong word, like I said I'm probably using the wrong adjectives. I couldn't really describe what it was.

And Shadow, it's a constant problem in all recordings done now not just that one part. I'm assuming someone altered the knob settings or dropped the microphone between the last time I was recording and this time and failed to tell me which is why I was hoping someone here might know what I should try adjusting.

Thanks for the suggestions guys
 
I've listened a couple of times and think there are a couple of things going on here. The "F's and S's" thing is a classic case of needing some "de-sssing" in your vocals. The best way to do this is at the recording stage by playing with the mic position relative to your mouth--there's no "put it here" magic bullet, you just have to move it a half inch at a time and experiment. With tracks already recorded, Audition (I'm taking your user name literally) has a couple of de-esser pre-sets. One is under the EQ section in FFT Filters and the other is in the Multiband Compression. I have a hunch the multiband compressor one would work best on your voice but have a play with both.

Don't be insulted but I think what you're calling a "hollow" sound is a slightly "nasal" vocal. In close miked situations, some microphones can accentuate this...it's the result of a bit too much mid-range. The best place to fix this (again) is during recording--hang the mic high, slightly angled towards the chest, forcing yourself to sing with your head back slightly. On pre-recorded stuff, some subtle EQ cut in the midrange generally helps...play with various cuts in the 1K to 2 K sort of range. A tip that works for me is to start off raising the various frequencies on a graphic EQ until you find one or two that make the hollowness really bad...then cut those ones by a few dB each. It seems easier to detect it when you make it bad for some reason. Careful not to use too much EQ though, or you suck the life out of your vocals.

Hope this helps,

Bob
 
Hey Bob, thanks for your reply. My problem isn't with the whole thing though, it's specifically after the part I quoted. That's why I posted it up here, it was strange to me that I left and came back to the recording the next day to finish and the quality sounded different when I hadn't changed anything. I've been trying to exhaust all other options before taking it somewhere. (I'm not singing by the way, it's more hip-hop/rap. I wish I could sing!)

Thanks for your input!
 
As someone said earlier, it does get suddenly louder at the point you mention, maybe because it's louder your picking up more room sound at that point, it's hard to tell with the piano playing but may be more noticeable solo'd. A bad room sound could be described as 'hollow' maybe. Also I think you are clipping as mentioned earlier at that point as there is a quick bit of distortion. Hope this helps.
 
Just how different was it the next day?

I ask because one of the hazards of mixing is "tired ear syndrome". I find that, after walking away from a mix for a while, the next time I come back to it I hear things I didn't at the end of a longish session. Frankly, even if I have time to finish one evening, I'll deliberately leave it for a while and make a point of coming back to things "fresh" for another session. None of the things I was talking about were anything more than subtle changes.

....and apologies for using the word "sing". I never know the appropriate verb when talking about rap vocals. It's more than just speaking but not quite singing!
 
Perhaps a sample of the track without backing tracks. Also for vocals you'll have moisture problems, without precautions. Which can alter how a mic sounds. I really couldn't tell much beyond the clipping / distortion. Which may or may not be what you're considering the problem.
 
Apologies for the late reply, sure I'll mute the piano and see if you can get a better idea. I tried turning down the input gain and it still has the same issue. And I had walked away for that reason exactly, "tired ear syndrome" as you called it. But I've now been away from it since my last post here and it's still the same. I re-recorded with an even lower input gain today (which is the a capella I'll include the link to) but still no luck. It's not a huge distortion, I think it's more just me being a perfectionist when it comes to my music. Even so I'd appreciate anymore ideas as to what could be causing my little problem. Thanks for everything so far!

a capella sample:
zSHARE - test1aca.wav
 
Are you sure that it's just not the vocalist? Perhaps another type of mic would better suit (headset?). It's just hard to tell on that one since zShare seems to suck IMO. And the type of voice isn't really my thing. The other sample had obvious clipping. This one I really couldn't get more than the first 3 seconds played from zShare, and downloading to look at it failed outright.
 
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