highway to hell kick drum

[patlang12]

I have been having a lot of trouble trying to make this thread so hopefully it works and I don't double post. I asked this in a someone elses thead about drum mics in the mic forum, but I thought I might get a better response in here. Thanks!

Last night I was listening to AC/DC in a friends car and I realized I really like the kick drum sound on the song Highway to Hell. Does anybody know the best way to get that sound. Not just the mic, but the tuning, heads, drum size, and mic position. I am still figuring what kit I want to get for my project studio and I would like to get my kick to sound like that. Thanks a lot!

 

[cobradenim]

Phil Rudd plays a 22" kick drum. Back when that album was recorded it might've been a 14x22. He started using Sonar Drums about "Powerage." Before he used Slingerland. Knowing AC/DC, It was problably wasn't any special technique or anything to get that sound. He most likely removed the front head and stuffed a pillow inside the drum. Back In Black also has a killer Kick drum sound...and a better snare sound.

 

[patlang12]

all right, so are you saying no front head or just stuff the drum and then put the head back on? Also what mics would you choose and where do you think a good place to start when micing it? Thanks a lot!

 

[Tim Brown]

Phil Rudd plays a 22" kick drum. Back when that album was recorded it might've been a 14x22. He started using Sonar Drums about "Powerage." Before he used Slingerland. Knowing AC/DC, It was problably wasn't any special technique or anything to get that sound. He most likely removed the front head and stuffed a pillow inside the drum. Back In Black also has a killer Kick drum sound...and a better snare sound.

You're forgetting one thing:

Mutt Lange.


Lange has always used oversized drums for recording.
He normally used a 16"x32" Drum Workshop that was custom made for him in the 70's. I read that he hated little drums and said, "Little drums make little, thin-sounding drumtracks."

I remember one drummer was doing a Shania Twain record, and he took in his nice new Yamaha RC's, and Lange already had a kit for him to play based around that 32" DW Kick drum.

And back in the 70's Rudd was playing 24" & 26" Kicks - not a 22". I know a guy who toured with them and he said that Rudd was using the same setup as Bonzo - Just heavily muffled, and tuned as low as they would go.

Tim

 

[patlang12]

Well I don't know how I would do all that. I might be buying a drum set, but I was going to get a small one because I don't have a ton of space. The drums that I would probably try to get to sound like this are not that big so.... Any tips to get close to that sound. It seems that tuning them low would be a good idea.

 

[cobradenim]

And back in the 70's Rudd was playing 24" & 26" Kicks - not a 22".

He was not using 26" kicks. All the footage i've seen (Including bootlegs) he's not using a 26" kick. Maybe a 24". Remember, the guy's only 5' 6" so you'd know if he was playing a 26".

I know a guy who toured with them and he said that Rudd was using the same setup as Bonzo - Just heavily muffled, and tuned as low as they would go.

Rudd used 2 rack toms, and on HIghway To Hell and Back In Black he used 3 racks. On For Those About To Rock he went to a single rack, he may have used a 24" kick around then but not a 26."

 

[PhilGood]

He was not using 26" kicks. All the footage i've seen (Including bootlegs) he's not using a 26" kick. Maybe a 24". Remember, the guy's only 5' 6" so you'd know if he was playing a 26".


Rudd used 2 rack toms, and on HIghway To Hell and Back In Black he used 3 racks. On For Those About To Rock he went to a single rack, he may have used a 24" kick around then but not a 26."

I think you're missing Tim's point. Phil Rudd may have used those sizes in his own kit, but Mutt Lange was/is notorious for inovating recording techniques. If he wanted a specific sound, you were forced to use his devices in the studio to get the job done. Too often what we see used on tour is not what was used in the studio. You might be right that its only a 24". It was probably that or a 26" in the studio. If it WAS a 26", it probably had a leather patch where the beater hit.

My guess as to the "Highway to Hell" sound and all of Back in Black was:

Large kick drum
Coated Ambassador head batter side
No front head
Felt beater with a shortened stroke so it wouldn't be too loud for the mic
Pillow
Craploads of compression

 

[patlang12]

My guess as to the "Highway to Hell" sound and all of Back in Black was:

Large kick drum
Coated Ambassador head batter side
No front head
Felt beater with a shortened stroke so it wouldn't be too loud for the mic
Pillow
Craploads of compression

Ok I am going to use the biggest kick drum I can find. I will get a felt beater too. I would guess that I should tune the kick as low as I can to try to make up for a smaller size. Anybody want to suggest a mic or mic placement. I am in the market for a new kick/bass mic so I would like to hear what you guys think. Thanks again!

 

[PhilGood]

Ok I am going to use the biggest kick drum I can find. I will get a felt beater too. I would guess that I should tune the kick as low as I can to try to make up for a smaller size. Anybody want to suggest a mic or mic placement. I am in the market for a new kick/bass mic so I would like to hear what you guys think. Thanks again!

One thing to remember is the larger the kick drum, the harder it is to record the attack. You might want a beater pad or leather patch for a good 'slap' sound. Also, with a large bass drum its easy to tune it too low for the mic to pick up the low frequencies. Play with the tuning.

 

[patlang12]

One thing to remember is the larger the kick drum, the harder it is to record the attack. You might want a beater pad or leather patch for a good 'slap' sound. Also, with a large bass drum its easy to tune it too low for the mic to pick up the low frequencies. Play with the tuning.

Ok I will try that. Any suggestions for mics and placement.

 

[Tim Brown]

Ok I will try that. Any suggestions for mics and placement.

Try the kick mic of your choice on the sweet spot, and an 8" speaker wired to a Mic cable, placed out in front of the kick (You wire it up and use it as a mic. Low end from hell!)


Tim

 

[Tim Brown]

He was not using 26" kicks. All the footage i've seen (Including bootlegs) he's not using a 26" kick. Maybe a 24". Remember, the guy's only 5' 6" so you'd know if he was playing a 26".


Rudd used 2 rack toms, and on HIghway To Hell and Back In Black he used 3 racks. On For Those About To Rock he went to a single rack, he may have used a 24" kick around then but not a 26."

When I saw them on the Back in Black tour here in Jacksonville, FL (It was at the end of August because I was starting school - we had just moved here about a month before.)
He was using a Sonor kit with 1 rack (it looked like either a 14"x14" or 15"x15" Power tom), 2 floors, a Very large Kick, a snare, and a boatload of huge Cymbals.
Basically probably whatever he used on the next tour, it was the same basic layout that he used in the videos from the next LP. (For Those About To Rock.)


I don't know how tall Phil Rudd is but compared to the entire band - it looked like a 26", and so when an older roadie I know told me it was a 26" - I assumed he was telling the Truth - after all he was travelling with them - I wasn't.


Tim

 

[Tim Brown]

One thing to remember is the larger the kick drum, the harder it is to record the attack. You might want a beater pad or leather patch for a good 'slap' sound. Also, with a large bass drum its easy to tune it too low for the mic to pick up the low frequencies. Play with the tuning.

That's where the infamous "Kick Drum Tunnel" comes in handy during recording.

You can leave the kick's drumhead(s) in "wrinkle" land, mic the sweet spot, and then either with a mic or a speaker (I like the speaker myself) stick it at the other end of the kick drum tunnel.

We made one out of Chickenwire and 3" thick foam once, and it was awesome! It was about 6' long, and man the kick had TONS of low end in that mic. (We used a C414 on that end and a D12 (note- not a "D112") in the kick.


Tim

 

[cobradenim]

I think you're missing Tim's point. Phil Rudd may have used those sizes in his own kit, but Mutt Lange was/is notorious for inovating recording techniques. If he wanted a specific sound, you were forced to use his devices in the studio to get the job done. Too often what we see used on tour is not what was used in the studio. You might be right that its only a 24". It was probably that or a 26" in the studio. If it WAS a 26", it probably had a leather patch where the beater hit.

I am aware that bands record using different gear sometimes, but this is AC/DC. If you brought in a Les Paul and told Angus to play it he would probably tell you to fuck yourself. These guy's do what they want. Mutt Lang might've been able to make Def Leppard play what ever kick drum or guitar he wanted but AC/DC doesn't work that way.
Phil Rudd may have used a bigger kick in the studio but all the concert footage i've seen, he was using no larger than a 24" kick. In Live footage from For Those About To Rock he had the biggest sound and they were the heaviest on that tour. He had a big rack, probably what Tim said, 14 or a 15, and 2 floors, probably 16 and 18.
I think we've all got off the initial post, which was the kick sound on Highway To Hell. I'm assuming by all the footage i've seen that he removed the front head and placed a pillow inside the drum. Watch the Jailbreak video, and look at the American release of the Let There Be Rock album cover for examples. Fact is, no one knows for sure what he used in the studio. If I ever meet him, I'll ask him!!
I like bigger bass drums personally.

 

[Tim Brown]

If you look at all the pictures of his Kick, he definitely uses a lot of muffling in the kick. A hard Mallet would give you a good attack, but I think I'd rather have a good Felt mallet myself - you can bury that in the head and it will have that soft "slap" instead of the smack of a hard mallet.

 

[patlang12]

If you look at all the pictures of his Kick, he definitely uses a lot of muffling in the kick. A hard Mallet would give you a good attack, but I think I'd rather have a good Felt mallet myself - you can bury that in the head and it will have that soft "slap" instead of the smack of a hard mallet.

So you guys said mic the sweet spot. I am new to drum micing. Where is the sweet spot? I know it is not in the same spot everytime, but where would be a good place to start? Thanks again for all of your help.