hey everybody

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james of unity

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Ok, ive been struggling alone for a while now, i'm making progress but i seem to have hit a brick wall.

i've been recording and producing (and playing guitar) on my bands tracks which are here: myspace dotcom slash mouuk


although they sound reasonable, i still haven't hit the nail on the head.
my problem is that ive never had any technical advice on eq, so i'm pretty much advancing in the dark! Ive noticed insturments in pro mixes sound thin but very well placed, which is the product i'm aiming for, i feel maybe i cut too much, leave the wrong bits in etc....
is there any advice/literature anybody can offer?

james
 
I know definitely one thing I look at when using EQ is this chart. SouthSide Glen put that together. Its a very comprehensive chart on what instruments dominate what frequencies.

However, sometimes the best EQ to do is no EQ at all :)
 
that may actually be one of the most beautiful things ive ever seen, thankyou!
 
James ... after listening to your stuff, I don't think you're going to get much out of interactive frequency charts that show you what frequencies are dominated by a clavical or a harp or vionlin. :D

I mean ... that's all fine and good for learning, if you're a beginner who's interested in sound. But I think what you could really benefit from is more of an adjustment to your psychological mindset; how you view the layering of the different sounds and how you approach it.

My guess is that you are probably trying to make every single element within your final track ... sound huge and full.

You need to start viewing your final track as having a finite amount of space, and you can't just cram huge, full-sounding guitars in with huge, full sounding, bassy synth lines, with huge, bassy sounding percussion along with a huge and fat bass synth line. You're ultimately going to wind up with a thin, jumbled-sounding mess. A good song, mind you - just difficult to listen to

Start high-passing stuff that doesn't absolutely need a huge bottom end to it. Pick one or two elements to round out the bottom end ... then fill it in with some thinner, mid-rangy things (like you've done with a lot of your vocals) ... and then round things off with some more delicate / airy things and so on and so forth.

Layering big-sounding things on top of bigger-sounding things on top of huger-sounding things ... is just going to wind up canceling a bunch of stuff out. And rather than the mix getting larger and larger ... it will continually get smaller and smaller instead. Think of a print advertisement that is loaded with big, distracting tag lines everywhere, with exclamation points after every sentence ... every word capitalized and bolded ... no paragraph breaks and about 5 different fonts and 6 different colors ... all within the same ad. :D

For an example of what I'm talking about, check out this funny video, and think about how it might related to mixing:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=36099539665548298&q=microsoft+ipod

.
 
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As the creator of that frequency chart, I think I have a pretty informed opinion on it here: Charts like that are next to useless for the things that everybody seems to think they are actually good for. Frankly, any time somebody comes on here and has an actual mix and asks for advice on what's wrong with it or how it can be improved, the VERY LAST THING they need is a frequency chart. Ever since I made that chart I feel like Kalishnikov when he sees his invention in the hands of some extremist.

Without the ears, the critical listening skills, one is not going to make a very good mix, and a frequency chart won't help. If one cannot tell by listening to their mix what is wrong, they are not ready to mix. They may not be sure offhand how to correct it - that's how boards like this can help - but they should at least know what is wrong by listening to it.

If you can't ID why the mix sounds wrong, no chart in the world will help you get it right.

G.
 
But surely you need to learn while mixing? It's not all theory, surely?
Learn by listening is exactly what I mean; yes. The "theory" detailed in that frequency chart is useless if one can't hear first.

I'll agree that one should learn how to mix while mixing, but I think there's a lot of room for folks to learn how to listen *before* they start mixing. Everybody is in such a hurry to make their CD or MP3, and they assume that the gear will do all the work for them, that they don't find out until they are stuck in the middle of a mix just how lost they are because they don't actually know what they are listening to or listening for. They just don't have the ears for it yet.

And yes, a lot can be done to get those ears long before one even sits down in front of a mixer or DAW. It's amazing what one can learn just sitting back and listening to a spring thunderstorm; principles of frequency response, directionality by frequency, delay/reflections/reverb, arrangement and instrument parts by frequency, attenuation, etc. - entire chapters of information relevant to audio engineering - can be learned just by *paying attention* to a spring thunderstorm and thinking abut it a bit.

After doing that kind of thing a few times, and getting used to listening vs. hearing, visit a live performance or three. Not the big honking auditoriums where you hear nothing but the barn your sitting in, but a more intimite setting with a band supplying more than just a wall of noise (even if you intend on making nothing but a wll of noise yourself.) Apply the same paying attention techniques you picked up listening to a thunderstorm, and actually pay attention to how things actually sound, what works together and what doesn't. *Pay attention* to why the ride and the crash sound different and how they interact different with the rest of the stage, *pay attention* to how the different vocalists' different mic techniques (or lack of them) have a positive or negative effect on the actual sound of the vocal track, etc.

Then augment that by playing around with a graphic eq and a couple of CDs for an hour a night for a fortnight, learning how what you have learned to hear actually relates to the numbers printed on the front of the gear and used in the frequency charts. *Then*, maybe the information contained in the frequency charts will actually *mean something* and make some sense. *Then*, maybe, one might be ready to start thinking about mixing music and prepping themself for stepping up to the controls.

Frequency charts like mine are very much like road maps. They contain a whole bunch of useful information. But what they don't tell you is which direction you are facing, where you are, where you want to wind up, or how to get from here to there. If you are driving in a car and find yourself lost, stopping and looking at a map is no good if you don't know which way is north, where you are currently located, or where you are trying to drive to. The map won't tell you any of that stuff. Once you have all that info, the map *still* won't tell you which way to go, it just describes every route that can potentially be taken, and it's your job to read and interpret that info to get you where you need to go.

In audio, one needs a critical ear to determine north, present location and (most important) your planned destination first, before a map such as a frequency chart can be of any real use. And even then it can't tell you what to do; it can only provide the lay of the land, which you as the driver need to interpret to decide the best way to get from here to there.

G.
 
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