Help with volume mastering

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skinneejoe

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Hi all,

I've very likely posted this in the wrong place and asked the wrong question, so please go easy on me since I'm a newb! :)

I'm using Reaper and I'm struggling with the best way to increase the volume of the track overall. I've got everything mixed how I want and EQ'd where I want it. I've seen a couple methods of increasing the volume 1) set a hard limit of -0.01 and amplify as loud as you can without getting static or 2) compress the master track and then normalize it. Option two is a pain because I can't find a way to normalize the master track so I have to render the track first and then reimport it into repear and then normalize it.

Am I going about this all wrong? Is there a better way? Remember I don't know what I'm doing! :) Thanks!
 
I wouldn't normalize the master track. Look into multiband compressors and pair your compression with limiting.
 
ok so the idea would be to compress it, limit it, and then amplify it? The main problem I'm having is that my tracks sound nice but are just quieter than other music. I will look into multiband compresssors. It just seems like there must be a fairly standard way to raise the volume on tracks, but I may be wrong...
 
I will look into multiband compresssors.
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I'd really do everything I could to avoid that... They usually do much more harm than good.
It just seems like there must be a fairly standard way to raise the volume on tracks,
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Not a chance.
but I may be wrong...
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Good chance.

Not that volume can't be challenging -- And the gear can certainly make a difference... But if a mix doesn't "want" to be loud, more than likely, it's the mix's fault. A great sounding mix, made with gobs and gobs of glorious headroom at every possible stage, will typically handle the abuse the "volume thing" much more handily than an "eh" mix that was red-lined from the start.
 
I think we have to be clear that there are a couple of things at play here.

Getting the "maximum volume" on a DAW is easy. Just normalise (as the OP has done) to as near 0dBFS as you dare. In a digital system, that's the maximum you can go. Anything more clips.

However, life isn't as easy as that. There are lots of things that make one track SOUND louder than another even though they both peak at exactly the same level. Most of these are down to dynamic range (or lack thereof) and compression.

As Massive Master says, how well a track can handle the "abuse" of all the compression, hard limiting, A.N.Other torture is down to how the track is mixed in the first place (and I'll add to that the style of music). Listen to Massive Master though. He speaks a lot of sense.

One thing I feel I have to say is that the frequently given advice not to normalise is just plain silly. Normalisation is a non-destructive, totally reversible process. No, it might not be the best way to make your music sound loud but neither is it something to be avoided. On the other hand, throwing in lots of compression (especially multiband if you don't understand what you're doing) CAN mess up your mix forever.
 
Bobbsy said:
Normalisation is a non-destructive, totally reversible process. No, it might not be the best way to make your music sound loud but neither is it something to be avoided. On the other hand, throwing in lots of compression (especially multiband if you don't understand what you're doing) CAN mess up your mix forever.
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Just want to chime in here - adding compression and limiting on the master inserts is also non-destructive, and totally reversible. I don't know how it could be considered any less reversible than normalization - i.e. I don't think it 'CAN mess up your mix for ever' :-) If you don't like it, remove or tweak the inserts and re-export.

With that said - I do agree that multiband is a tool left to people who really know what they are doing. I also shy away from calling anything I do to my tracks mastering, I'm just getting the level up to where it doesn't sound way lower than other tracks.
 
If you're talking real time effects on inserts, yes you're correct. However, once you've done a "render" or "mix down" (or whaterver the DAW in question calls the process) with compression on, you cannot remove the compression.

Normalisation, applied to your track or even your master can easily be reversed because it does not change any of the level relationships within the track the same way compression does. If you normalise a track peaking at -10dBFS up to -.01dBFS, then decide you don't like it, then normalise back to -10dBFS it will be identical to the original. The same does not apply to compression.
 
Ok so after doing a little research it seems most people recommend using a masterLimiter or a form of compression on the mix and then amplifying, and it seems to be working well for me. I'm not a pro recording studio, just a hobbyist, so when I see that most people do something a certain way who are in my same shoes, that to me makes it fairly standard. I understand there are lots of nuances to professional recording and that there are no set standards, but reallly, people who are hobbyists like myself aren't always looking for the "it's a big mystery and too hard for you to comprehend" answer. sometimes we just want a couple techniques to try and play around with so we can learn through trial and error. But without even knowing what to try how can you learn? I work in IT for a living and there are myriads of different ways a person can solve one problem, but in the end you have to choose a solution. And likely some of those methods are used more often then others, which would make them more standard solutions. Granted not the solution for every occasion but worth a shot especially for those with limited knowledge trying to learn.

I do appreciate the tips on how well my mix is recorded to begin with. Problem is I'm on a tight budget and the equipment I have is what I'll always have. I've done research to make sure I'm recording as best I can with what I have so I'm just trying to fill in the gaps as best as possible post recording. I'm not looking to make the next chart topper. I'm actually very happy with how the mix has turned out, so thanks for everyones help!
 
Bobbsy said:
If you're talking real time effects on inserts, yes you're correct. However, once you've done a "render" or "mix down" (or whaterver the DAW in question calls the process) with compression on, you cannot remove the compression.

Normalisation, applied to your track or even your master can easily be reversed because it does not change any of the level relationships within the track the same way compression does. If you normalise a track peaking at -10dBFS up to -.01dBFS, then decide you don't like it, then normalise back to -10dBFS it will be identical to the original. The same does not apply to compression.
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I see where you are coming from. I do all my 'pseudo mastering' on the master inserts and tend to treat the rendered mixdown as disposable. I generally do a two step on my master inserts - light compression to shave off the peaks (usually no more than about 3-4 db of reduction) and get things to gel up, and apply makeup gain until I'm peaking around -3. Follow that with a mastering limiter - I typically use Elephant or UAD Precision limiter - shooting for an average RMS of around -13. This puts me in the ballpark of the cds I typically listen to and enjoy. If I feel like the compressor is robbing me of hi or low end I will usually juice it a little with a small amount of UAD pultec inserted before the limiter.
 
Compress the living hell out of each track individually and make sure that all of those tracks are at -.01db. Then make sure all the buses have compression on them and also at -.01db. Then put another compressor on your master bus followed by a brick wall limiter and raise to -.01db. If there is an attenuation bar on your limiter, make sure it is a big solid red block throughout the entire song. Then bounce it down, normalize that track, and finally convert it to a 96k mp3.
 
DogmaticVox said:
Compress the living hell out of each track individually and make sure that all of those tracks are at -.01db. Then make sure all the buses have compression on them and also at -.01db. Then put another compressor on your master bus followed by a brick wall limiter and raise to -.01db. If there is an attenuation bar on your limiter, make sure it is a big solid red block throughout the entire song. Then bounce it down, normalize that track, and finally convert it to a 96k mp3.
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can you let me know before you give away any more of my closely held secrets?
 
DogmaticVox said:
Compress the living hell out of each track individually and make sure that all of those tracks are at -.01db. Then make sure all the buses have compression on them and also at -.01db. Then put another compressor on your master bus followed by a brick wall limiter and raise to -.01db. If there is an attenuation bar on your limiter, make sure it is a big solid red block throughout the entire song. Then bounce it down, normalize that track, and finally convert it to a 96k mp3.
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This is the best way to achieve loudness, for sure.

picard-facepalm.webp

Cheers :)
 
DogmaticVox said:
Compress the living hell out of each track individually and make sure that all of those tracks are at -.01db. Then make sure all the buses have compression on them and also at -.01db. Then put another compressor on your master bus followed by a brick wall limiter and raise to -.01db. If there is an attenuation bar on your limiter, make sure it is a big solid red block throughout the entire song. Then bounce it down, normalize that track, and finally convert it to a 96k mp3.
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Then turn your mp3 player up to 11 and enjoy the wonderful warmth and dynamics!
 
id bounce it down to a wav stereo track then open up that file in a new session, then put some compression on the whole track to bring the dynamic range closer. Athat i generally add an expander and stereo enhancer if i think it needs it. I'll then find the loudest section of the track and bring the levels up so that the loudest part of the track is the loudest it can be without any digital clipping happening.

thats what i do to get it louder
 
hi, i am not realy qualified to give you proper answer (i am just hobbyist too), but already have some experience in raising overall volume in my tracks, so i'll share.
I use Reaper too, this is how i approach it:
-bounce your mix making sure there's no clipping (use comp on individual tracks, if there's still peaks that clips, don't try to lower your master fader, lower individual
track(s) instead)
-import your wav into empty session, on the fx insert use Schwaa soft clipper (inside JS plugins or something like that), then compressor, then limiter. you're not going to use all of them, but rather try to hear what sounds best.
-enable soft clipper, set it's brickwall (usually -0.3 dB) and raise threshold until sound change. Then back off a bit till it sounds clean again. i can get 5dB of GR in this step easily. YMMV.
-enable compressor and see if it can give you any extra loudness without sounding bad or screwing dynamics. youre going for some 1-2 dB of GR max.
-enable limiter , set its brickwall to -0.1 and raise threshold to taste. Try enabling and disabling compressor to hear what's better.
BTW, i am using Voxengo Elephant as master limiter.
-render your master track.

Please, note that this is intended to just get you started, take my advice with a grain of salt. My approach works for my music, not guaranteed it will work for you.
Don't forget it's a noob's advice. But hopefully, you will learn somethingand finally you'll be able to find you own workflow.
cheers
 
i use T-racks deluxe v3 of ik multimedia, believe me it does a wonderful job with and u can use the presets if u dont know much about what kinda compressors to use.
 
......and the "advice" just keeps getting wackier and wackier. And we're only on page 2. This should hit full-out retardedness by about page 4.

:D
 
RAMI said:
......and the "advice" just keeps getting wackier and wackier. And we're only on page 2. This should hit full-out retardedness by about page 4.:D
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I think the proper word is "retarditude" ... ;)
 
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