Help with Vocoder needed for a VS2400 Newbie

[Fuchida]

I am a complete newbie in the area of Digital Recording but I recently bought a VS-2400 CD and I am starting to get the hang of it. I have a coouple of keyboards linked to it and no problem recording mutilple tracks and playing back . However, I am having trouble with the Vocoder, primarily because I know nothing about Vocoders and the manual assumes that I do.

My aim is to get the vocoder to adjust my fairly awful singing voice into tune

I have an keyboard track (track 7) and a vocal track (track 8) , both of which I linked to FX1 (using CH EDIT). I set FX1 to Vocoder2 and I have the tracks the correct way around (L+R). I am playing a keyboard lead line at the same time as I sing.

I end up with voice recording on both tracks (and I am not convinced it is in tune) and I also have the background noise of the instrument on both tracks and I cannot get rid of it.

Is there anyone who could please give me a step by step guide to making this work and tell me the best settings for all the various Vocoder2 parameters to achieve my intended improved singing and what they actually do. (In laymans terms please. For instance, I have no idea what HPF is and is doesn't seem to be explained anywhere in the manual.)

It would also be useful if someone could give a checklist of what is supposed to be connected to what in terms of tracks, aux buses, effects and FX return channels. I think I have it correct but it would be good to have a second opinion. Particularly, what happens if other tracks are set to Aux buses but (in the VGA CH EDIT monitor view) but the dials below the On buttons are turned down. Also, should I have those dials turned up for Aux bus 1 for tracks channels 7 & 8.

Any assistance greatly appreciated.

Frustration and Confusion reign

Steve

 

[moley]

Hi there Steve,

I've got a 2480, and, funnily enough the vocoder was one of the first things I tried when I got it

Not because I want to adjust my awful singing, but because I'm a Herbie Hancock fan

Ok, well, first things first, I don't think the vocoder is the thing to use to adjust your singing. It will do that, but at the same time it will make your voice sound very different. The vocoder is an effect, it is designed to encode your voice onto the sound of a synth - it won't act as an AutoTune substitute. You can use it to make your singing in tune, but, it won't sound like you anymore, it will sound like a singing synth (or whatever sound you vocode with)

Now, the 2400 and 2480 are not the same. But I've only used the 2480, so I'll describe it from the point of view of the 2480, and let's hope that they're pretty much the same in this respect.

Ok, so you've got vocals on one track and the keyboard on the other. Have you definitely used the vocoder in insert mode? When you look at the channel edit screen for the keyboard channel, does it say 1 in the FX INS box? Use the cursor to select the FX INS box, and hit YES. Does it say FX1 INS L?

Now, the vocal channel - does it say 1 in the FX INS box? Select the FX INS box and hit YES - does it say FX1 INS R?

If so, you should be all set up. Are you doing this "live" or with pre-recorded vocal and keyboard parts?

As far as vocoder settings go, I'm really not sure what's best. There are 19 bands, the manual says nothing about what to do with 'em Just play with the settings, and see what works.

With vocoding, you'll find that the keyboard (or whatever) sound is crucial in determining the quality of the sound you get out. To make the words clear, it's best to use sounds with a sort of "buzzy" edge to them, e.g. strings - rather than mellower sounds.

Oh, and HPF means High Pass Filter. It's a filter (basically, a severe form of EQ), which removes all frequencies below a certain point, only letting the frequencies above that point through. Hence, the name, High Pass Filter.

I'm not sure what that has to do with vocoding...

 

[Fuchida]

Thanks for responding.

It sounds like the saleman misled me about the Vocoder and what it was supposed to do (or maybe just didn't know like me )

What is the AutoTune you mentioned? Is that an effect or device I could use instead of the Vocoder

As far as L+R go, I am using a computer monitor with the 2400 and on there you select graphical icons on the CH EDIT view which show a wire going top or bottom of the effect. Top is Left and Bottom is right. The Mic is through the right.

I am using Vocoder2 so as well as the 19 bands, there are settings for Envelope, PanMode, Hold, Mic Sensitivity, Synth In Level, Microphone Mix, Mic HPF, MicPan and NSThresh. It's these I am struggling with.

According to the manual Mic Sens is the Mic Input Level and Synth In is the Keyboard Input level but doesn't specify what lowering either of these two means (e.g. does lowering the instrument input remove the sounds from the output or does it modify the effect on the vocal?)

Envelope is Soft, Sharp or Long for enhancing voice, enhancing instrument or 'vintage sound'.

NSThresh is Noise Suppressor Threshold (1-100) which 'sets the volume to start muting noise on the instrumental input' (so how is this different from Synth In and what is the effect on the vocoder output?)

I think I need a manual to explain the manual

It also specifies that Vocoder 2 'yields clear human voices' so I am hoping I can still do something with it.

I also have a PSR9000 which has something called Vocal Harmony. Haven't tried it yet because my mike doesn't have a jack connector (yet ). Any knowledge of the 9000 (and whether the vocal harmony might be what I need?)

Thanks again for your help

Steve

 

[moley]

Thanks for responding.

It sounds like the saleman misled me about the Vocoder and what it was supposed to do (or maybe just didn't know like me )

Possibly. Or maybe he just wanted to sell you the 2400

What is the AutoTune you mentioned? Is that an effect or device I could use instead of the Vocoder[/B]

Yes, but the VS doesn't have it. It's a software plugin used with Pro Tools and the like, I'm not sure if there's a hardware version or not.

As far as L+R go, I am using a computer monitor with the 2400 and on there you select graphical icons on the CH EDIT view which show a wire going top or bottom of the effect. Top is Left and Bottom is right. The Mic is through the right.

Ah ok, it looks like maybe the 2400 displays this differently to the 2480.

I am using Vocoder2 so as well as the 19 bands, there are settings for Envelope, PanMode, Hold, Mic Sensitivity, Synth In Level, Microphone Mix, Mic HPF, MicPan and NSThresh. It's these I am struggling with.

According to the manual Mic Sens is the Mic Input Level and Synth In is the Keyboard Input level but doesn't specify what lowering either of these two means (e.g. does lowering the instrument input remove the sounds from the output or does it modify the effect on the vocal?)

I presume what it alters is the input level of the mic & keyboard, going into the vocoder. So presumably, decreasing the keyboard, will mean that the sound of keyboard will be less prominent in the vocoder output?


Envelope is Soft, Sharp or Long for enhancing voice, enhancing instrument or 'vintage sound'.

Yes. If I recall, I got the clearest vocal sound with the 'Sharp' setting.

NSThresh is Noise Suppressor Threshold (1-100) which 'sets the volume to start muting noise on the instrumental input' (so how is this different from Synth In and what is the effect on the vocoder output?)

Noise suppressor is just a noise gate. It means that when the volume level of the keyboard input drops below a certain level, it mutes it completely.

I don't recall the vocoder2 on the 2480 having a noise suppressor? I'll check when I get home.

I think I need a manual to explain the manual



Yup, I've found that the documentation on the effects is somewhat lacking in detail.

It also specifies that Vocoder 2 'yields clear human voices' so I am hoping I can still do something with it.

Clear human voices... heh. A pinch of salt is required, methinks

Unless, of course, the vocoder2 algorithm on the 2400 is different to the 2480. I thought the FX algorithms were the same between the two machines though.

Have you heard a vocoder before? Do you know what they sound like? It's usually quite a robotic sound. The clearest vocoder sound I've ever heard is on Herbie Hancock's late 70s funk/disco records. Check out the songs "I Thought It Was You", and "You Bet Your Love" by Herbie Hancock. That's the clearest example of a vocoder vocal that I can think of, but it still doesn't sound quite like a real voice. As yet, I've not managed to get a vocal that clear from the 2480's vocoder. But, choice of synth sound is crucial, and I've not really found the right one yet. And, experimentation is required with the vocoder settings, 'cause the manual doesn't tell you much

I also have a PSR9000 which has something called Vocal Harmony. Haven't tried it yet because my mike doesn't have a jack connector (yet ). Any knowledge of the 9000 (and whether the vocal harmony might be what I need?)

'fraid not.

Thanks again for your help

No problem