Help with mic set up for a Marshall amp

[chestwick91]

I need help. I keep micing my Jcm 2000 dual super lead combo amp (which only has one 12 in speaker) I am using a sm57 on both my amps (my fender sounds killer) but i mic my jcm 2000 six inchs to the right of the cone... like people told me, and it wont get all the highs and some mids...and the bass is really muffled...i tried eq on my 1880 and on the amp, but its not coming out that great... Any ideas to give me that clean distortion for metal and rock....do i need a new mic? or different placement...or both?

 

[Thunder33]

I need help. I keep micing my Jcm 2000 dual super lead combo amp (which only has one 12 in speaker) I am using a sm57 on both my amps (my fender sounds killer) but i mic my jcm 2000 six inchs to the right of the cone... like people told me, and it wont get all the highs and some mids...and the bass is really muffled...i tried eq on my 1880 and on the amp, but its not coming out that great... Any ideas to give me that clean distortion for metal and rock....do i need a new mic? or different placement...or both?

Depending on the room, you will need to play with the mic placement. Just make sure that you are setting up the sound on your amp correctly first. You don't want to use your live sound to record. It is a whole different beast. You can do some searches here and get some good tips.

 

[IronFlippy]

http://www.badmuckingfastard.com/sound/slipperman.html#contents

That should contain just about everything you want to know.

 

[amra]

Try it right dead center on the speaker, an inch off the grill. Or try it an inch in from the edge of the speaker, an inch off the grill. That seems to be a pretty common sweet spot on marshall amps/cabs ifyou dig that metal tone.

 

[tourettes5139]

Also try bringing the gain down, that can help a LOT while recording. Makes it much clearer, but can still sound heavy.

 

[gusfinley]

well...

Also try bringing the gain down, that can help a LOT while recording. Makes it much clearer, but can still sound heavy.

RIGHT!! I'm Assuming you are using a DSL401. The speaker in that amp isn't so great... It distorts a lot on its own, and doesn't have a great Bass response.

Mostly the amp just has WAY too much gain on tap for, how did you describe it? clean distortion? I owned this amp for two years and found that the best thing for the amp was to place a 12DW7 type tube in the V2 position. With this special lower gain tube, your clean channel will retain its original specs, but your OD channels will get a lot more friendly. You could actally get clean on OD1 with this tube in. Your range of distortion will greatly improve and you'll notice less Buzzyness in the amp. In fact, when yoou switch to OD2 and turn the knowb you can actaully hear when the buzziness begins. There will still be plenty of gain on tap with this simple modification...

Good luck!!

 

[chestwick91]

Your right, it is shitty. I switched it with a vintage 30 and it still sucks, so i'll try what you say...whats the v2?

 

[gusfinley]

yup...

Your right, it is shitty. I switched it with a vintage 30 and it still sucks, so i'll try what you say...whats the v2?

I liked the sound of mine with a greenback (two tubes pulled)....


V2 is the second preamp tube (little one.) As you open up the back of your amp and look into it, it will be the second closest one to right side. For $10, its the best thing you could do for the amp...

 

[chestwick91]

V2 tude?

So wait with the new tude in the v2 spot does this give it cleaner gian? does it still keep it's distortion...does it make it more week though?
i think i'll do it but would like to know....
What does grennbacking make it sound like...more distorion or what?
does it matter what tubes i need to replace?

 

[soundchaser59]

So wait with the new tude in the v2 spot does this give it cleaner gian? does it still keep it's distortion...does it make it more week though?
i think i'll do it but would like to know....
What does grennbacking make it sound like...more distorion or what?
does it matter what tubes i need to replace?

I dont know about your specific amp, but I know experimenting with tubes is a money pit just like experimenting with mics and preamps and pickups.....just that the tube money pit is not quite as deep as the others.

I also know that when you find a tube or a combination of tubes that you like, you will want to memorize exactly which tubes and model numbers they are and where you got them, because they are all different. Try changing one at a time to hear the difference, then put it back and change a different one. Dont change them all at once or you will never know which tube makes the most difference.

And wait til you start changing speakers!!!!

 

[gusfinley]

So wait with the new tude in the v2 spot does this give it cleaner gian? does it still keep it's distortion...does it make it more week though?
i think i'll do it but would like to know....
What does grennbacking make it sound like...more distorion or what?
does it matter what tubes i need to replace?

In V2 half of the tube is for the clean signal, and half of it is for the OD signal. If you just pop a lower gain tube in there then it'll attenuate that really beautiful clean channel that the DSL401 has... This is a DSL401, right? It could be a 201, but I think they're pretty much the same thing.. but if it is a 201 let me know and I'll check the schematic on what's going on at V2....

12A#7 type tubes contain two tube sections. The 12DW7 is a tube which is half 12AX7 (high gain) and half 12AU7 (Low Gain.) In the V2 position, the low gain half of the tube attenuates the gain by 1/5. By comparision, switching to stock OD1 from stock OD2 attenuates the gain by 1/10. So your modified OD2 channel will be more like your stock OD1 channel, but your OD1 channel will have a MUCH better range of distortion available.

So, if you want to see if this MOD is for you... Set your amp to OD1 and MAX the gain. If its got enough gain , then the 12DW7 will do wonders for you. (You will still have more gain than that available on modified OD2 with the 12DW7 however.) It will make the "modified OD1" behave somewhere between the clean channel and the stock OD1 channel.

Feel free to check out the clips on my site... compare the OD1 and OD2 samples of a 12AX7 and 12AU7. These are terrible clips and the gain is set to 5 on the samples... http://cc.usu.edu/~davbradshaw/amps/dsl401/mods.htm#Tube

good luck!!

 

[chestwick91]

Ok so here is the deal...I read that website and will read it more in depth several times to understand....I have I very good mechanical mind so think i should have no problem doing these things but Can i damage the tubes or anything of that nature by just taking them out?...Let me try to explain things a little more in depth....Here we Go! There are two guitars/ amps in my band...If they sound a little different thats ok...just don't want them to clash..and they do...My lead guitarist plays a strat with two humbukers (he plays on my fender stage 112 se (it's not a tube amp) My other guitarist Plays On the marshall with an SG standard with the 490's in it(and yes it is a dsl401) The Fender can get preety much any sound out of it...from fender twang, to clapton strat but usually plays with a real good medal sound. Both guitars are usually always tuned a half step down and sometimes drop d on top of that However when i plug both amps in and just bar the 2 fret the marshall can never ever seem to get that dark tone like the fender...it feels like it is strugaling, and it's always muffled...(like it can't handle being a half step down, also makes the guitar sound out of tune) So first thing i did was put a vintage 30 in it...improved the sound ten fold...but still sounds like the guitar is out of tune. Now keep in mind that the kid with the marshall went out like an idiot and bought his equipment that HE thought was cool, he was not worried about matching sound...i already had a word with him on that...But my main problem is...he needs all the distortion that he can get because if he doesn't have it...you can hear every little screw up he makes..."hes not that good" So i would love to change tudes and such but i need the distorion for recording, and live, i am not sure that i need more of it, i just need it to sound darker...and like you said....got to get ride of that crappy low end week muffled buzz. If this makes any sence let me know. I mean shit he spends 1000 on this amp and 700 on the guitar and all that and it makes a sound like you turned the tv up so loud that it's trying to hard to please you but just wont...thanks man....you have really good tips
P.S that clear channel your talking about blows...not clear plus has the same problem and he just got new tubes

 

[gusfinley]

hmmm.....

Yes, the DSL401 does lack Low end.... In fact my Plexi gets pretty mushy at times, too.... don't try to push the amp somewhere that it won't go.

It sounds like what you may have to do is to EQ your amps differently... Have on of them be brighter and one darker. That will help them mix together. It may be to your advantage to have your guitartists who isn't as good to have the darker tone, so that his failures don't "cut through."

As crazy as it sounds, he may acutually be the one who is making the guitar sound out of tune!! I had a band member once who seemed to never be in tune. He would tune his guitar to mine (since using a tuner never seemed to work for him). It would all sound good and then the moment he started to play, it was gone... Turns out when he plays he pulls the strings a little sharp.. it took me a while to realize this and it really drove me nuts.

See how the amp sounds when you play it, and try EQing your amps different. That may give you a good place to start...