Help with EQ carving...

[dudernut]

Hello everyone!

My alternative rock band is going to give home recording another shot. We cut some demo tracks in my garage a few months ago to get some shows, and it worked. None of us are professional, and we rushed the process because we wanted something...anything on the web to help us take the next step. Now that those are up and serving their purpose, we are going to try again for more polished results.

I learned a lot trying to mix down the songs, and knew little to nothing about EQ as I aimlessly tinkered with the knobs until I thought it sounded good. Naturally, our finished results were far from perfect. I have read up a little but about where we went wrong, and I think that much of it came from my lack of understanding about why and when to EQ. I have only recently been introduced to the concept of EQ carving, and of course it makes total sense. My problem is that we are a five piece band with up to four (though rarely more than two) vocal parts at a time. Instruments being recorded includes: 2 electric guitars, bass guitar, piano/synth, and drum set. This is obviously a lot to take on, especially when it comes time to mix. How does EQ carving apply when SOO many instruments are involved? How do I know what order to layer the frequencies of the multiple tracks? For instance, should the bass guitar be lower than the kick, or is that simply preference? How do key parts fit in cleanly with two guitar parts competing for frequency? How much should I rely on panning? Basically, I would like any suggestions that someone would have for a beginner mixing this many tracks at once.

Thanks in advance!

 

[gecko zzed]

The short answer is that there are no specific 'rules' abut carving EQ, and that if you carve, you apply it where it is needed. Which, of course, is not much help to you.

A longer answer is that while EQ carving may make sense to you, it depends on you being able to determine that an EQ problem exists, and what action to take to fix it. This means that you need to understand what it is you are actually listening to, and it takes a while to develop this skill.

Trying bringing up different combinations of tracks, and seeing if there are things that disturb you, where that disturbance lies, and experiment with EQ to remove it.

 

[jonny deep]

The key is to get everything sounding as good as you possibly can from the source to begin with. Good quality recordings made in the first place mean you will have much less work to do at the mixing stage to make everything sound clear. So, experiment with mic placement, etc., to capture the best sound you can - it's very easy to just think that'll do, I'll fix it when I'm mixing. I'm currently working on a song that I've been tracking for months (alongside my busy life, which always seems to get in the way) - but I'm taking the time to get decent recordings and without any mixing it sounds far superior to my previous efforts.

A trick I've used successfully when mixing vocals is to EQ the main vocal so it sounds good - for my voice, a little boost around 500Hz and 2KHz usually sounds pretty good (well, as good as my voice can get). Then, where I find instruments are getting in the way of the vocal, but this can't be fixed simply by panning or fading that track a bit, I make a little gain reduction at the same frequencies I boosted in the voice, then the vocal comes through better. Similar treatment to backing vocals works quite well - although I tend to pan the backing vocals left and right (so they're balanced - of course this depends on the effect you're going for).

Please understand that I'm a total novice at all this, but the above has helped me get a clearer sound and might give you a useful starting point for your experimenting.

 

[jonny deep]

I should probably add: I think the reason the EQ carving of other instruments works in that way for me is that a lot of the clarity of the voice is heard at around 2KHz, so carving there in other instruments helps the voice be heard through the other sound better.

 

[murphyd311]

One thing somebody told me a couple years ago, was don't be afraid of pre-sets. Assuming you are using a DAW. Yes, they don't work if you just slap them on a track, BUT if you play around with them and pay attention to how they sound and what they are cutting and boosting, it can help you train your ear as to what needs to be carved. Also I find that they can be a good starting point when EQ'ing. Just find the one that sounds the best in the mix and tweak it until it sounds better (or worse).

 

[mixsit]

The short answer is that there are no specific 'rules' abut carving EQ, and that if you carve, you apply it where it is needed. Which, of course, is not much help to you.

A longer answer is that while EQ carving may make sense to you, it depends on you being able to determine that an EQ problem exists, and what action to take to fix it. This means that you need to understand what it is you are actually listening to, and it takes a while to develop this skill.

Trying bringing up different combinations of tracks, and seeing if there are things that disturb you, where that disturbance lies, and experiment with EQ to remove it.

Nailed spot on. And IMHO, don't expect this mirroring' cut here 'cause we're gona' boost there' eqing as being any where near a primary or first go-to set of solutions. It's totally more likely that a) tracks will need general shaping- control for low end extension and track weight to take care of being high on the list, b) each track can have it's own inappropriate freq spots to deal with, and then- much of what determines if those particular curves are inappropriate are how they combine and fit.
I see this as a circular process. The big stuff first, coming back around in levels of fine tuning. Lots of times once things are in decent shape, a lot of this 'track overlap problem' is way down the list. One good generality perhaps- The better the track and arrangement fit, and/or the less dense the mix- the less aggressive the eq fixes needed. And vice versa..

 

[jonny deep]

Nailed spot on. And IMHO, don't expect this mirroring' cut here 'cause we're gona' boost there' eqing as being any where near a primary or first go-to set of solutions. It's totally more likely that a) tracks will need general shaping- control for low end extension and track weight to take care of being high on the list, b) each track can have it's own inappropriate freq spots to deal with, and then- much of what determines if those particular curves are inappropriate are how they combine and fit.
I see this as a circular process. The big stuff first, coming back around in levels of fine tuning. Lots of times once things are in decent shape, a lot of this 'track overlap problem' is way down the list. One good generality perhaps- The better the track and arrangement fit, and/or the less dense the mix- the less aggressive the eq fixes needed. And vice versa..

Lol, maybe I've been lucky so far that my opposite eq boosting/reducing has worked for my vocals.

 

[dudernut]

Thanks for all suggestions. Like I said, we still have not recorded the tracks, so I will try my best to capture the best sound possible from the start. Unfortunately, my monitors could be the weakest link in my setup, and I do not have the funds to upgrade any time soon. This has all been very helpful, but I am sure I will have more questions as we take on this exhausting project.

 

[BurningBridges]

Thanks for all suggestions. Like I said, we still have not recorded the tracks, so I will try my best to capture the best sound possible from the start. Unfortunately, my monitors could be the weakest link in my setup, and I do not have the funds to upgrade any time soon. This has all been very helpful, but I am sure I will have more questions as we take on this exhausting project.

You may want to fix that. Trust me, you will not make a good sounding mix without a good monitoring setup. After having the best possible source sound to record, having good, accurate monitors is the second most important aspect of recording and producing a pleasing sounding mix.

 

[djpoter]

I should probably add: I think the reason the EQ carving of other instruments works in that way for me is that a lot of the clarity of the voice is heard at around 2KHz, so carving there in other instruments helps the voice be heard through the other sound better.

I think that too

 

[Pahtcub]

Yeah it takes a while to get out of the mindset of "fixing" tone from a dead source. You should be able to get a decent mix with no eq whatsoever if your sources are good. EQ is just for tweaking things.