help wanted

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sticksman23

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ok so, im looking to soundproof a shed in my back garden.. yet ive no idea how to do it.

1, the shed is about 10' tall, and the base is 9' x 9'.

2, there is a 7' door, and a small window.

3, the shed is made of bricks, and has a concrete floor.

4, it will be used for drumming practise between the hours of 12pm and 8pm.

anything else you need to know??

any help would be much appreciated.

thankyou
 
sticksman23 said:
ok so, im looking to soundproof a shed in my back garden.. yet ive no idea how to do it.

1, the shed is about 10' tall, and the base is 9' x 9'.

2, there is a 7' door, and a small window.

3, the shed is made of bricks, and has a concrete floor.

4, it will be used for drumming practise between the hours of 12pm and 8pm.

anything else you need to know??

any help would be much appreciated.

thankyou
Click to expand...
What kind of roof? This could be your weak link. That and the window.
 
What kind of roof? This could be your weak link. That and the window.
Click to expand...
What pandamonk said. Bottom line is this though. "Soundproof" is a misnomer. There is no such thing. Only degrees of "transmission loss". Additionally, it makes no sense to modify a building envelope to increase the transmission loss to achieve isolation of 110db sounds at 20' from the building, when the object of your desired isolation is 100' away and resides in a concrete bunker.;) Distance and THEIR existing building envelope transmission loss is your friend.

For GUARANTEED results, first off, you would need to define the SPL of the sound you are producing, and then the SPL of that sound reaching your target, and measure the distance between.( Sound pressure decreases by 6db for every doubling of the distance)

Do this by measuring the SPL INSIDE your existing structure(while drums are played), outside at 5' away,and then at the boundary of the target envelope. This will tell you HOW MUCH you have to improve the transmission loss of your existing building, which can be an futile exercise in physics unless you understand HOW to interpret the data in terms of actual effective construction (areas of transmission loss improvement). Usually, this can only be achieved by trained acousticians.

Thats why, for most HR and DIY musicians, effective "soundproofing" is a lesson in guesswork and trial and error. For the most part, BRUTE FORCE from the beginning is the method of choice....ie....seal the weak links, add LOTS of MASS(decoupled mass if budget permits), usually defined by 2 layers of well insulated 5/8" drywall(depends on existing transmission loss), and detail articulated door/jamb/seal assembly improvement(i.e...SOLID CORE Doors(or two) with caulked jambs/thresholds/casings with good weatherstriping seals. Sound propagation from AIRLEAKS is the point here.) In essence, you AIRPROOF the building interior envelope from the outside world, while adding enough mass to keep transmission loss through the building envelope assemblies at a minimum. Thats why pandamonk addressed your roof and window.

However, once you SEAL an enclosed space, you effecitively have AIRPROOFED it, and you know those musicians...they like to breath.:D...ie..you have to VENTILATE the enclosed space while keeping sound from propagating through the "system" to the outside world. Thats a whole 'nuther ballgame.

To FULLY address your project, you really need to tell us the complete circumstances . ie...distance to target, what the target of isolation is, and all the details of your existing building...type of music, how hard you play, etc etc.

fitZ:)
 
RICK FITZPATRICK said:
What pandamonk said. Bottom line is this though. "Soundproof" is a misnomer. There is no such thing. Only degrees of "transmission loss". Additionally, it makes no sense to modify a building envelope to increase the transmission loss to achieve isolation of 110db sounds at 20' from the building, when the object of your desired isolation is 100' away and resides in a concrete bunker.;) Distance and THEIR existing building envelope transmission loss is your friend.

For GUARANTEED results, first off, you would need to define the SPL of the sound you are producing, and then the SPL of that sound reaching your target, and measure the distance between.( Sound pressure decreases by 6db for every doubling of the distance)

Do this by measuring the SPL INSIDE your existing structure(while drums are played), outside at 5' away,and then at the boundary of the target envelope. This will tell you HOW MUCH you have to improve the transmission loss of your existing building, which can be an futile exercise in physics unless you understand HOW to interpret the data in terms of actual effective construction (areas of transmission loss improvement). Usually, this can only be achieved by trained acousticians.

Thats why, for most HR and DIY musicians, effective "soundproofing" is a lesson in guesswork and trial and error. For the most part, BRUTE FORCE from the beginning is the method of choice....ie....seal the weak links, add LOTS of MASS(decoupled mass if budget permits), usually defined by 2 layers of well insulated 5/8" drywall(depends on existing transmission loss), and detail articulated door/jamb/seal assembly improvement(i.e...SOLID CORE Doors(or two) with caulked jambs/thresholds/casings with good weatherstriping seals. Sound propagation from AIRLEAKS is the point here.) In essence, you AIRPROOF the building interior envelope from the outside world, while adding enough mass to keep transmission loss through the building envelope assemblies at a minimum. Thats why pandamonk addressed your roof and window.

However, once you SEAL an enclosed space, you effecitively have AIRPROOFED it, and you know those musicians...they like to breath.:D...ie..you have to VENTILATE the enclosed space while keeping sound from propagating through the "system" to the outside world. Thats a whole 'nuther ballgame.

To FULLY address your project, you really need to tell us the complete circumstances . ie...distance to target, what the target of isolation is, and all the details of your existing building...type of music, how hard you play, etc etc.

fitZ:)
Click to expand...

Been awhile since I've been online here, but that is a great advice, as I wouldn't expect less from you Fitz:)

And what I can add is this: for get some good transmission loss in my built "studio", I read a lot here before construction; read from Etan Winer's and John Sayers's sites, did some searching back to the early days of Bruce's (Blue Bear) studio design and construction, and took the best guess at what I though would work well and what I could afford and was easily available to me. Don't know the transmission loss technically, but "real life" I can play my drums at max. velocity on hits while my neighbor stands at either of my two weak points (in-wall AC unit and my door) 20' away and can barely notice the sound. I used concrete block and poured-in-place construction for the "outer leaf"- the structural shell of the building, and "detached" wall studs for the interior. I cut corners and only used 1 layer of 1/2" sheetrock, though, and that has resulted in extra interior broadband treatment needed because I get a little bit of the "double-headed drum" resonance effect on the louder instruments like kick drum...basically anything low in frequency and loud in volume.

But in a nutshell, buy something called "rigid fiberglass". It comes in "slats", panels if you will. Different look and texture (and of course performance) than that fluffy pink insulation. Owens Corning Corporation model is "703" and "706" (probably more, but those are two models I know of, "3" being the most commonly referred to on this forum. You usually have to buy it in packs of 5, usually not at your local hardware Menard's or Lowes, and then wrap the panels in fabric you buy at a local craft store, or even wallmart, and that will help absorb some of your broadband frequencies so they don't get lost through the walls on to the outside.
 
Seeker of Rock said:
But in a nutshell, buy something called "rigid fiberglass". It comes in "slats", panels if you will. Different look and texture (and of course performance) than that fluffy pink insulation. Owens Corning Corporation model is "703" and "706" (probably more, but those are two models I know of, "3" being the most commonly referred to on this forum. You usually have to buy it in packs of 5, usually not at your local hardware Menard's or Lowes, and then wrap the panels in fabric you buy at a local craft store, or even wallmart, and that will help absorb some of your broadband frequencies so they don't get lost through the walls on to the outside.
Click to expand...

Sorry - don't do that to help isolate - because it will not help to a point that you could even measure.

This is a mistaken belief that some people have.........

This is used for room treatment - not isolation -

Don't get me wrong - you will end up doing this at some point in time - but for isolation you need to deal with your issues before the room is ever finished.

Now - just to avoid someone trying to argue the point with me - let me explain why it doesn't help - can't possibly help in fact.

Let's suppose you have a wall that will attenuate 65 dB at frequency "X"....... (the actual frequencty doesn't matter) and you transmit that frequency inside your room at drum level (which I consistently measure inside practice rooms runs around 100 to 110 dB).

What happens is that your wall is going to lock into the room 65dB of frequency "X" - and (for 100 dB) 45dB of frequency "X" passes through the wall to the outside world.

Now - let's picture a cubed room (don't want to bulild one - just easier to do the math) 10x10x10 - thus 600 sf of wall/floor/ceiling surface area.

if we had a 2x3 piece of treatment that had a value of 1.0 psf for sound absorption - and understand that this is equal to the sound it attenuates in both directions - so if the sound only traveled one way and then dissapeared the value would be roughly 1/2 - so in the end - with a value of 1 - that would equal the sound attenuated if you were to open a window 3' square - which would mean you dealt with only 3% of the sound in the room -

And then you deal with the fact that reality is that the sound really being attenuated is reflected sound - if you covered the entire room (all surfaces) to the point where there were no reflections - you would (in the end) still hear the true original signal - so in the room you would hear your frequency "X" @ 100 dB - the treatment would stop all reflection (so the room is now anechoic and can''t be worked in for any lenght in time) and the walls would still only attenuate the 65 dB - leaving 35 dB to escape the room...........

Nope - room treatments do not create room isolation.........

Sincerely,

Rod
 
Nope - room treatments do not create room isolation.........
Click to expand...
:D, dang Rod. I'm glad you had the energy to post this..AGAIN...for..lets see now..the UMPTEENTH THOUSANDTH fucking time..:rolleyes:

Hmmmmm, how do you spell ...

STICKY???....



HEY DRAGON!!!! DON'T YOU GET IT YET??? :mad::mad:
(sound of a yawn from Dragon)

Whats amazing is the "stickys" on other forums....:rolleyes:

Thanks Rod.
fitZ:)
 
Hmmmm, I also wonder why the author of this thread hasn't bothered to acknowlege the replys. Oh well, it won't be the last time a goddamned STICKY could have answered his questions in the first place. Ole Dragon knows that someone will answer, RIGHT OR WRONG and keep his moneymaker going.
fitZ
 
BTW folks, in case you arn't aware of it, Rod has a book out called HOW TO BUILD A HOME STUDIO LIKE THE PROS or something to that effect. Sorry Rod if I misnamed the book. Just wanted to let people know.

fitZ:)
 
hello again everyone.
thanks very much to you all who have given me advice.

all im looking to do, is play on my drum kit in my shed, without the outside world being able to hear.. a thing.

my neighbours are about 25 yards from my shed.

oh and by the way, im from london.. so these american hardware stores your naming, ive never heard of!

cheers
 
sticksman23 said:
hello again everyone.
thanks very much to you all who have given me advice.

all im looking to do, is play on my drum kit in my shed, without the outside world being able to hear.. a thing.

my neighbours are about 25 yards from my shed.

oh and by the way, im from london.. so these american hardware stores your naming, ive never heard of!

cheers
Click to expand...
:eek: Not a thing? Right outside the door, or in the neighbours house? Not a thing, right outside the door will be very hard and will cost A LOT!!

I'm from scotland, so might have more of an idea of where you can get things/what you need. If they tell you american things, I'll try and help you out with equivolent UK stuff.

I have a brick built(3 brick thick) WW bombshelter, with concrete roof(about 8" thick) and floor, all sheeted on the inside, with a floating floor(not professional), sealed up nice and tight, and you can still hear the drums outside. You can't hear them in the house around 25+ yards from it though, but I'm not sure about the neighbours house about 5 yards away.
 
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