Help! Soundproofing for cheap

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wastehead

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Hey all.

I have this 8 x 12 room that i use for playing/recording drums.
The ceiling is finished. 2 walls are studed and are drywalled, one wall has concrete blocks, and one wall has old ceramic "nonna" tiles, a couple cubbards and a kitchen sink, so... yea, not cool.

What do all you, studio "been there, and regret doing that" people, suggest I do to (or at least try to) "soundproof" the walls, and do it CHEAP, and what can i do about the ceiling?

Thanks.
 
anyone will tell you the same thing.. there is no such thing as cheap soundproofing...
 
Diffusion said:
anyone will tell you the same thing.. there is no such thing as cheap soundproofing...
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Exactly... the laws of physics don't give a rat's ass about someone's budget! ;)
 
Cheap??? Well you could always learn to make bricks out of mud and straw....
3 or 4 feet thick should do it.

:-)
 
Hello wastehead. I ditto. However, when you say "soundproof", what exactly are you trying to do? Without knowing what your circumstances are, no one can help you much. For instance, it's a no brainer that you are trying to keep the sound of drums from "escaping" :D The trouble is, you have THREE devils.
Impact sound
Low Frequency
High SPL(sound pressure level) in other words....loud.

You need to understand it is true that "soundproofing" is expensive. But what tells you that you need it? D Complaints? Possible eviction? A warning? :D
WHO and WHAT are you trying isolate the drums from? Where are they in relationship to the "playing room" . Is this a basement? Or a garden shed? Or a garage? A bedroom? Tell us all you can and we may be able to help you define and do to help the situation to a degree. There ARE things you can do, to reduce transmission of the impact noise via the structure. But we need to know some things.

Like what the floor is made of. Any rooms adjacent to it? When you say finished ceiling, what kind of ceiling? Is there a floor above this ceiling or an attic? If floor, what kind of floor? Is it a bedroom or other? Any neighbors that you are concerned about? if so, how far are they? If not a basement, what is the exterior of the house or room sheithed in?

Well, these will do for a start. Once we know some things, we can better help you define what it is you have to do. Only then will you know what it will cost to reach your isolation goals. Thats usually when reality checks have the most impact on your decisions. Compromise is the usual recourse. I can tell you this. Under the best of circumstances, to isolate drums from an adjacent room can be very expensive, difficult, demanding, and uncaring should you make a mistake, and sometimes, illegal if you do certain things without a Building Permit. Under the worst circumstances, it can be relatively impossible unless you are Bill Gates :( But like I said, it's all relative to YOUR circumstances and budget.
fitZ
 
There are a couple basic principles to think about when "sound proofing". You stick to these and you can be creative. The rest is just details.


Sound proofing is acheived through
1) mass.
2) dead air.

You figure out a way to put the most amount of mass in the smallest space possible. That could be a couple layers of OSB with staggered seams, with drywall on top of those. Seal every seam with caulk.

Also, make sure everything is sealed up. It doesn't matter how thick your walls and doors are, if there's a crack under your door and you can see light through, you've just wasted a lot of time and money. Figure out a way to seal your door when it closes.

Keeping sound in a room isn't rocket science. At least not when you're talking about a home studio on a budget. You stick to these basic principles and you'll be golden.
 
wastehead, you asked some questions, and I was willing to give it a shot at helping you, but needed information to do so. If you didn't really need a solution, why did you ask?:rolleyes: It irritates me when people do this.
fitZ :(
 
I am in a similiar situation. I don't necessarily need to soundproof my music room, but I do need to make sure the volume is low as possible from outside. My 12x12 room is a second story bedroom with two exterior walls. The exterior of my house is brick on all four sides, except the one wall of my music room which happens to face my neighbors. The other exterior wall has one double pane, coated, etc. :rolleyes: window and faces an empty field behind my house and subdivision. My house is detached, with about 20 or so feet in between my house and those on either side. It doesn't matter if the rest of my house can hear it, I just need it to sound less loud outside and more importantly inside my neighbors homes--which I'm not sure they'd be able to hear it while inside with their windows shut and the central ac/heat on anyway. I have been reading about this QuietRock stuff and was thinking about putting some over my existing drywall. Could I get away with only covering the two exterior walls? Any other suggestions?
 
I just need it to sound less loud outside and more importantly inside my neighbors homes--which I'm not sure they'd be able to hear it while inside with their windows shut and the central ac/heat on anyway.
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Hello JohnnySixString, welcome to the bbs.

The key here is KNOWING if the neighbors can hear it, and if it is bothering them. What kind of instruments and SPL level are you talking about? Big difference between a flute and a set of drums or Marshall amp on eleven :D

I don't necessarily need to soundproof my music room, but I do need to make sure the volume is low as possible from outside.
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Well, at this point you have some plus's and minus's. Brick exterior is definitely a plus, although this is no guarantee in terms of sound transmission loss. Even brick will transmit sound at certain frequencies and sound level. However, you have a couple of weak links. Windows, and SECOND floor location.

I don't have time to dig into it at the moment..work calls. But I'll try to suggest some things tonight. In the meantime tell us about the music, instruments, levels(describe..ie...typical rock band...classical duo...etc.)
speaker location, floor material, who owns the house, can you alter the space, and everything you can. Info is key here.

fitZ :)
 
Thanks for the welcome! I have a 200w guitar half-stack, 150w bass amp, 400w pa and what I think will be the biggest problem, the drumset. It's a fusion drumset, if that helps any, with an 18" kick. I have a standard size bed pillow in it and it muffles it pretty well while still giving me a nice sound. But it's still an acoustic drumset and it's loud and there's no volume knob. I like to play loud, as I usually play metal or hard rock, but I've also learned that isn't always appropriate. So I try to keep the volume as quiet as possible. I am buying but I haven't acutally moved into the home yet-the whole street is still being built. I won't have a chance to meet any of my neighbors until November or so. I'm pretty sure that while they are in their homes with the windows closed, they won't be able to hear anything. And I only play after 11am and no later than 6 or 7pm. During days when they can open their windows it might present a problem.

On the inside of the house, the music room shares one interior wall with an open L-shaped game room and the other interior wall is shared with the bathroom. The exterior wall with the window has the brick and the other exterior has "hardy plank"-this concrete type of siding. However, only half of that wall is exposed to the outside as the lower half is where the 1st floor roof starts. I was thinking about making some kind of removable plug for the window. The floor is carpeted and is situated over half of my master bedroom and part of the family/dining room. I can do whatever I like to the inside of the room, or what my wife will agree to, but I still would like to keep it as inexpensive as possible and would also like to stay away from ripping the walls out. Let me know if any more info would help.
 
Well,

Everything would really begin with this - set up a sound system in the room and play some music at the levels you would normally play with your band. If you play at 110Db - then play the same music (CD's whatever) at the same 110Db.

You then go outside the house and take some readings to find out what the noise levels are there.

I would measure 3' from the house - and then at the property lines.

Make sure the music is really as loud - or maybe even a little bit louder - than you will be playing. Also make sure the bass levels are what you would be hearing in the room between your drums and the bass guitar.

If you could get your new neighbors to co-operate it would be great if you could get into their homes - check the levels there with windows open and closed.

Once you have all of this information - then someone can make intelligent suggestions to help you acheive the level of isolation you need.

Without this information - any suggestions would have to be for the worse case scenerio - and that gets expensive.

If you only need an additional 20Db of reduction (for example) that should be pretty easy and fairly inexpensive - however if you need 50Db that will be another altogether different thing.

Make sense?

Sincerely,

Rod
 
Without this information - any suggestions would have to be for the worse case scenerio - and that gets expensive.
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Well Johnny, our resident expert, Rod, has nailed it again. :D This is why it is so difficult to give people advice as to "absolute" isolation. Without knowing this information first hand, offering specific solutions other than "worst case scenario" is just spittin in the wind. I've become pretty good at the spittin, but damn, dodgeing the blowback sucks.:rolleyes: :p
fitZ
 
It's true there's no such thing as cheap soundproofing, but it's also true there is such thing as expensive non-soundproofing.
 
soundproofing

hi,

I want to build a room in my basement that is about 12 x 16, i do have a window but i'm willing to cover it up. We play hard rock, 5 string bass, guitar, drums and vocals. I walked outside my house while my wife was playing random notes on my bass at a fraction of the sound we play (3 on a 200W bass head, i normally have that cranked at 6 or 7). There is no way the neighbours would not hear that from inside their houses.

The thing is that the house is brand new and the basement is now well isolated for sound at all. the basement is not finished. the isolation goes all the way to the ceiling but there is nothing between the beams that support the first floor.

The floor and the walls are concrete (foundation).

I guess what i'm looking for is for this room to contain most of the sound. I don't mind if it sounds like someone has the stereo at 4 from upstairs, but i would love for my neighbours not to hear it. My propriety ends about 8 feet away from the outside wall.

i want to spend as little as possible but i'm also ready to face the fact that it will cost me :)

any thoughts on all this? thanks guys
 
i want to spend as little as possible but i'm also ready to face the fact that it will cost me
any thoughts on all this? thanks guys
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Hello Sterman666. Well, I won't pull any punches. Robust isolation is not cheap. Nor easy. If you plan on doing this yourself, you've got to come to grips with the realities of how sound transmission occurs, and how sound transmission LOSS is achieved. Not an easy task. But to help you with this portion, read this:
http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3521&sid=d7e56a865c2a2bcf60f3c5eb4bb1c764


In order to define what it is you need, and to keep from wasting a lot of money and time, you need to KNOW what your are dealing with in real terms. This means MEASURING it. That is the only way to determine the SPL(sound pressure level) you are producing in the ROOM, and then the SPL at a specific distance on the exterior of the house, in various locations. Once this is known, then it is easier to formulate a sound transmission loss strategy. However, given the facts as you have, it may require solutions which are extreme. These could range from increasing the mass on the exterior leaf to completely floating a room. Not a cheap proposition in any form.

To help you understand what you are up against, I suggest you read these two "examples" of isolation construction projects. At least you will get a taste of what it REALLY takes to achieve extreme isolation. I want to warn you though. The people who are building these are serious. No BULLSHIT. Therefore, prepare yourself for some reality checks. Most people who become interested in isolation construction have no idea of the realities. Here is just one:
http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4442&sid=d7e56a865c2a2bcf60f3c5eb4bb1c764
Here are two "diaries" which are ongoing projects. Good luck. The first is over a HUNDRED PAGES LONG :eek: :D :

http://forum.studiotips.com/viewtopic.php?t=107
http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2921&sid=d7e56a865c2a2bcf60f3c5eb4bb1c764


Well, hope these "thoughts" help. :)
fitZ
 
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