Help setting up first "proper" studio

[rothy]

Hello everyone, I am brand spanking new here. What a great community you guys have. I have experience in live concert recording and am about to set up my first proper home studio. In the past I have played around with "Cakewalk" and plugged my guitar directly into my computer's cheap soundcard. But now I have begun to purchase a few elements, and am ready to make some serious recordings. Here is what I have:

digidesign Mbox
Yamaha MG10/2 mixer
M-Audio BX-5 monitors
MXL 2001 mic
MXL 990/991 mic kit
Various acoustic and electric guitars
Casio "Costco-Special" crappy $200 keyboard
PC w/ Pro-Tools LE (from Mbox) and no soundcard to speak of (I also use a laptop sometimes)

My first question is about hooking up the monitors. Right now I go:

instrument/mic > Mbox > USB > PC

I am able to monitor playback via the earphone jack on the Mbox. I am able to mix down to wav in Pro-Tools.

I am unclear how to use the mixer (another new purchase) inline with the Mbox and PC to use for playback on the BX-5's. I still want to use Pro-Tools to record and mix down to wav obviously. But after I have used the mixer to get a proper mix, does it need to go back to the Mbox, then into the PC? Like this:

instrument/mic > MG10/2

Then split:

[1] MG10/2 > BX-5
[2] MG10/2 > Mbox > USB > PC

Will the mix going to the monitors and the Mbox be the same? And if so, what is the point of just putting 2 tracks (L and R) into Pro-Tools?

Or should it be:

instrument/mic > Mbox

Then split:

[1] Mbox > USB > PC
[2] Mbox > MG10/2 > BX-5's

That way Protools is determining the mix, but what is the point of having a mixer other than to be the i/o for the Mbox and BX-5's...

I am confused...

Thanks for helping out a noob...

-rothy (cause roth was taken)

 

[rothy]

In case you need info on the PC and laptop:

PC:
1.7 GHZ AMD
3 Hard Drives (all 7200) - One exclusively for ProTools Projects
512 RAM
No "good" sound card to speak of
All custom built about 4 years ago by me

Laptop:
1.6 GHZ Dell Inspiron 8600
512 RAM
separate firewire HD for Pro Tools (not sure of speed - probably 7200)

And for what it's worth, I have an $80 "Radioshack Special" A/D stand alone convertor I have used for other projects in the past...

 

[Supercreep]

What sort of music/instruments do you want to record and what is your recording space like?

-Casey

 

[rothy]

What sort of music/instruments do you want to record and what is your recording space like?

I mainly record:
acoustic guitar(s)
elec bass
very little elec guitar
keyboard
vox
hope to add a drum machine/program to works soon

NO actual drums/perc - YET

My room is about 20' x 20' square. Completely dedicated to home studio. It has a bathroom which I eventually hope to turn into iso chamber - but that is at least a year away. I will be doing some sound buffering/acoustics enhancement the next go around as well.

 

[AlexW]

The Mbox will act as your soundcard/converter so no sweat there.

You can monitor directly out of the Mbox as well, by sending the analog outputs to your BX5's; and using the mixer within PT to adjust your mix.

I think the biggest benefit to having a mixer with this setup is if you want to record more than 2 mics at a time. In this case, you could feed the mics into the mixer, then submix them down to two channels for input into the Mbox.

Sometimes it helps to monitor/track through a mixer to overcome problems with latency induced by your digital interface. With the Mbox, this isn't such a big deal as the channel input knobs allow you to adjust between a mix of the input signal and the output. For doing overdubs, set up a new track in protools, arm it to record, then mute it out. When tracking, adjust the input mix so you hear both the recorded signal going in as well as the playback from the other tracks.

If you want to monitor/record through your mixer; take the analog outputs from the Mbox into two channels on your mixer. Send the main analog ouputs of your mixer to your monitors. If the inputs are mono channels, pan them hard right/hard left. This will be your playback for your previously recorded tracks in PT. If you don't want to do any submixing, plug your mics for overdubs into one or two channels, then use the channel inserts jacks as outputs to the analog inputs of the Mbox (insert a mono cable into the first click of the channel insert). Set the Mbox inputs for line level and ajdust preamp levels on the mixer so you get an input signal peaking around -6 dB on the tracks you're going to record. Similar to the above, mute these channels out. You'll do your monitoring using the faders on your mixer between the input tracks and the playback.

 

[rothy]

If you want to monitor/record through your mixer; take the analog outputs from the Mbox into two channels on your mixer. Send the main analog ouputs of your mixer to your monitors. If the inputs are mono channels, pan them hard right/hard left. This will be your playback for your previously recorded tracks in PT. If you don't want to do any submixing, plug your mics for overdubs into one or two channels, then use the channel inserts jacks as outputs to the analog inputs of the Mbox (insert a mono cable into the first click of the channel insert). Set the Mbox inputs for line level and ajdust preamp levels on the mixer so you get an input signal peaking around -6 dB on the tracks you're going to record. Similar to the above, mute these channels out. You'll do your monitoring using the faders on your mixer between the input tracks and the playback.

This is exactly what I was looking for. THANK YOU very much - you guys are great, and fast!!! There is one thing I don't quite understand though:

use the channel inserts jacks as outputs to the analog inputs of the Mbox

This bit confuses me, but I have barely taken the mixer out of it's box - so once I start to play with it, I should understand better.

Thanks again!

P.S. Does anyone see any glaring ommisions from my setup?

 

[reshp1]

Hey, Rothy, welcome aboard. I think I can help with parts of your question, but I am a little confused about others parts.

First off, for monitoring, you want to take the line-outputs from the Mbox to one of the stereo channels on the MG. Line out 1 is L, 2 is R. Then plug the speakers into the C-R (control room) outs of the MG.

With your setup, you'll want to mix "in the box." Everything will be mixed inside Protools, the MG mixer will only be used to control the output. You would record up to two tracks simulatenously into Protools, and use the software mixer to mix the tracks.

 

[AlexW]

You should do fine with your setup for now with what you want to do. Don't worry, you'll figure out more stuff you want/need as you move along.

The insert-jack deal is basically just a way to get individual tracks out of your mixer into the Mbox rather than the entire mix or a submix. The Yamaha MG mixers having an insert jack on each channel (as I understand it, don't actually have a Yamaha mixer) meant for using an effects box (compressor, etc.) insert cable. An insert cable works by using a balanced stereo 1/4-in jack on one end (TRS--tip-ring-sleeve) and two mono jacks on the other end. The insert jack transmits the channel output to one of the mono jacks and brings the effected output back in via the other. Some mixers come with dedicated jacks for channel direct outputs and channel inserts. The Yamaha mixers don't, but you can use the insert jack as a direct output from the channel by inserting a cable into the jack to the "first click".

 

[rothy]

With your setup, you'll want to mix "in the box." Everything will be mixed inside Protools, the MG mixer will only be used to control the output. You would record up to two tracks simulatenously into Protools, and use the software mixer to mix the tracks.

Thanks for the warm welcome! Everyone here is so friendly!

Mixing "in the box" exclusively is what I was hoping you guys would say!

 

[rothy]

The Yamaha mixers don't, but you can use the insert jack as a direct output from the channel by inserting a cable into the jack to the "first click".

Excellent, I understand now, THANKS!

 

[Supercreep]

I mainly record:
acoustic guitar(s)
elec bass
very little elec guitar
keyboard
vox
hope to add a drum machine/program to works soon

NO actual drums/perc - YET

My room is about 20' x 20' square. Completely dedicated to home studio. It has a bathroom which I eventually hope to turn into iso chamber - but that is at least a year away. I will be doing some sound buffering/acoustics enhancement the next go around as well.

You will definitely want to condition the sound in your room if it's 20X20 square. Bass trapping will have a major positive effect on your sound. Check out the studio construction/design forum for some tips on where to pick up rigid fiberglass. You'll be glad you did.

-Casey

 

[reshp1]

You can monitor directly out of the Mbox as well, by sending the analog outputs to your BX5's; and using the mixer within PT to adjust your mix....

....If you want to monitor/record through your mixer; take the analog outputs from the Mbox into two channels on your mixer. Send the main analog ouputs of your mixer to your monitors.

There's two analog outs CR and ST on the MG board. Use the CR ones for the monitor, that way you can control the volume with the CR control knob without affecting your overall level with the master fader. And use one of the stereo channels on the MG (7/8, or 9/10) to plug the Mbox line outs into. That way you won't have to mess with the pan.

I think the biggest benefit to having a mixer with this setup is if you want to record more than 2 mics at a time. In this case, you could feed the mics into the mixer, then submix them down to two channels for input into the Mbox

The only problem with doing it this way is that the MG doesn't have enough outputs or busses to keep the monitoring signal coming out of the Mbox separate from the other inputs going into the MG. You'll have to disconnect, or turn down the level of the Mbox line output channel on the MG. Otherwise you'll end up recording what the Mbox is outputing as well as your inputs.

 

[rothy]

I have two other somewhat random questions...

First off, will this system (meaning the BX5's) - support playback of 24 bit/ 96 KHZ audio and if so, how do I deal with s/pidf issues on the speakers?

Second, if I need to record directly from a turntable (high-end Numark direct drive w/ RCA output) would I be better off going into the Mbox then PC or into the mixer, then into a standalone recording device (Nomad Jukebox 3 HD recorder)?

 

[AlexW]

The BX5's only have analog inputs (XLR & TRS connections). S/PDIF is a digital ouput, so you won't be using this with your monitors. The MBox will be doing your D/A conversion out to your monitors, so whatever it supports is what you're monitors will get.

As far as inputs from your turntable, I'm a fan of minimizing the signal path. I'd get some RCA to 1/4-in adapters and plug it straight into the Mbox.