Help on mixing bass

[DTalley]

Whenever I mix rap songs for clients I have the toughest time trying to acheive that fat bass sound without either drowning the rest of the mix out or the bass sound not sounding fat enough. I own a Mackie 1604 board and I have two compressors along with an Alesis Q2 efx proc. and I use the Event 20/20 monitors. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to acheive a fatter drop bass sound and still keep clarity within the entire mix??

 

[T.J.Hooker]

Keep playin' wit dat EQ bro. If two compressors aren't helping you get some fat punch. I'd say EQ. Hope it helps, T.J.

 

[pglewis]

Make sure the source actually has the bass frequencies you need. You can boost the EQ all you want, if the bottom ain't there in the first place, it won't do any good. Also, make sure the Low Cut switch isn't engaged on that channel on the Mackie.

EQ should help from there. If you can't boost the bottom the way you want, you might try cutting the mids and highs and bringing the level up.

 

[Arthur]

If your recording demands a lot of low end, you need the proper equipment during the mix so you can hear what is really going on there. What I try to say: do you have a subwoofer? I never mixed on Events, so I don't know, but do they go low enough to really judge the low freqs? How's the source you are recording? I mean, if it's a synth or sampler patch, does it sound right in the first place? If its electric bass, how's the sound of that bass and who's playing... see what I mean? I believe mixing is not some occult wizzardry where you can fix everything. You got to make sure your input chain is top notch to get top notch results.
An example: if the bass patch on the synth you are using lacks some 'body' at the low end, try to add a simple low sine wave to it in unison to give it more 'ooomph'. I found getting the right amount of bass in the mix one of the most difficult parts in the whole process. I think that first you should be able to really hear what's going on to make a proper judgement.
Regarding a 'fat' sound: you can beef up the sound with the right compressor en some surgical EQ, but you must be sure the sound source is 'fat' sounding also. E.g. I find it easier to work with a sound that is even a bit too fat sounding, cause doing some cutting is generally easier than adding something. Hope I still make sense....
If you try to use a single band compressor in the mix to beef up the bass, the result will not be very satisfactory, as you mids and highs will suffer (the bass absorbs every bit of energy and the other frequecies need other compression settings - multiband compression is the ticket here).

So, to finalize my rambling... first be sure to hear what you are mixing, and then experiment. I'll be glad to help out with specific questions (e.g. what source do you use, synths, samplers, patches).
Hang in there.
Cheers

Arthur

 

[crosstudio]

my mastering has gotten tons better since i started using the multi-band compressor in SEKD's RedRoaster.

it's put me close enough to getting a "pro" sound that now i am really annoyed by the delta between my sound and "pro" sound.

my problem is the same as yours. i need to cut the mud tones, while keeping the thump.

the 2nd track on Mos Def's CD is a perfect example. the horns and synths stand straight up, the vocal feels like it sits right in the middle of everything, and yet the bass & kick thump. i envy that track. i'm not there yet, but i least i can hear where the difference is.

seems to me that the bottom is cleared out for the bass and kick. the horns, vocals, and all other instrumentation are all high-passed. the really low frequencies of the bass and kick seem to be cut too (under 30hz is what i've been told on rec.audio.pro), but there is a spike in the EQ somewhere under 80hz to make the speakers shake. i just don't know exactly where.

i plan on recording Mos Def's track into RedRoaster and using the FFT Spectrum Analyzer to find out exactly what's going on.

 

[Arthur]

SEK'D makes excellent software. I use their Samplitude 2496 almost every day. Great summing algorhythms, they sound a lot better than those on cubase or logic. Also the 32 bit floating point thing is neat. It's also very stable, especially compared to cubug.

Cheers
Arthur

 

[Rev E]

D,

One of the earlier posts was right on, IMHO. The bass starts with the right sound first. Most synth bass patches right out of the box are NOt approprate for the rap bass sound that I think you're going for. I have the Roland 1010 synth module. It has all of the sounds from the JV80, 1080, 2080 (except without the editing - editing is done on computer). Long story short is that there are a couple synth bass sounds in that piece (and I suspect in other Roland keys/modules) that has the sound you're going for basically out of the box. If you can get a hold of one of those keyboards then go for it.

If you CAn't get a board with the magic sounds built in, then I suggest you eq a chunk out of a Moog-type bass sound out of the middle, so that the bass has only low lows (under 70Hz) and high highs (above 2-3kHz). Play around from there. The bass sounds that have it out of the box have that characteristic of having very low lows built in and some high harmonics so that we can tell what note the bass is hitting. The lows are really just for shaking the floor and providing rap "ear candy".

The mid bands of the bass are EQ'd out to make room for the vocals and other instruments. Also the kick and the bass must be EQ'd as a group. If you have the kick spankin' at ~90Hz, then the bass must be cut in this same frequency. Use the synth for the deep, shakin' bass sound. Don't have the kick real low. The kick "thump" is around 70-110Hz), below that for most kick sounds (unless we're talking about a 'drop bass' sound, which is really a synth bass) will have to much energy to be of any use (read: it will muddy things up).

What I'm proposing will not be able to be EQ'd on the Mackie. There just isn't enough parametric EQ control to properly EQ the bass this way. Either use the parametric in your computer (if you have one) or try editing the bass patch within the keyboard's effects. Surprisingly, many keyboard's have parametric eq's in their effect processors that are good enough to do what I propose.

Also, don't forget to compress the kick and bass HArd, like they insulted yo' mamma'!

Let us know how things turn out.

Rev E

[This message has been edited by Rev E (edited 07-13-2000).]

 

[The Green Hornet]

Yo DTalley Mon:

Some simple things to consider about getting the bass line the way you want it.

If you are recording your bass from a speaker, good luck without some fancy gear.

If you run the bass through a mic pre and then into your recording box, record bass on ONE TRACK and when you go to mix it down, raise the low EQ a tad, and lower the HI EQ a bit and, Voila, you should get a nice Funky Thunky sound.

If you don't have BASS on its own track, you will have a problem because if you mess with EQ you are moving more than one sound up or down and some sounds don't make low and some don't make it HI.

Give it a try,

Have to go....Kato is trying to grab the last beer.

Green Hornet